Podcast:
Jack Ratay: Autism, Faith & Music | Three Heart Cross & Apologetics | Cross Examined Ep. 7

00:00:00.080 Welcome to Cross-examine with the
00:00:01.600 Gerbers. I’m Ken Gerber.
00:00:03.360 >> And I’m Megan Gerber. And this is Jack
00:00:06.240 Rete, my son, and your stepson.
00:00:12.000 >> Yeah.
00:00:12.719 >> Yay.
00:00:13.360 >> At Crossexamine with the Gerbers, we
00:00:15.200 like to bring together our faith, our
00:00:17.199 law practice, our family, and ministry.
00:00:19.760 And obviously today, we are emphasizing
00:00:22.240 our family. Welcome, Jack.
00:00:24.160 >> Thank you guys for having me. It’s an
00:00:25.920 honor to be on here. I think this is the
00:00:27.519 first time I’m doing I’m definitely
00:00:30.320 doing a podcast but interview on you
00:00:32.800 know u on a camera I think it’s the
00:00:35.600 first time. So, one of the main reasons
00:00:37.760 that we have you here, and there’s a lot
00:00:39.120 of things that we’re going to get into,
00:00:41.600 but uh the timing of this is
00:00:44.239 particularly important because you are
00:00:48.640 the frontman of an international touring
00:00:51.520 band, Three Heart Cross,
00:00:53.520 >> and you have a lot of original music
00:00:55.680 that you do, but you have recorded and
00:00:59.280 finalized your very first release, and
00:01:02.879 that is coming out soon. Uh yeah, that
00:01:05.600 would be August 31st, 8:31. And it was
00:01:08.720 actually, you know, that’s a really cool
00:01:10.159 story. You guys cool with me getting
00:01:12.240 that?
00:01:12.400 >> Yes, please.
00:01:13.040 >> Yeah. So 8:31, it was just a date I
00:01:16.560 chose because we were talking about
00:01:18.000 putting stuff out at the end of the
00:01:19.520 summer and we, you know, when I was on
00:01:20.960 tour in Poland, I was telling everyone,
00:01:23.200 "Oh, we’re going to have music coming
00:01:24.400 out this summer." And so I wanted to
00:01:27.119 keep my word and put something out this
00:01:29.439 summer. So I’m like, "Okay, 31st of
00:01:32.000 August. Why not?"
00:01:33.119 >> End of summer. end of summer. Let’s
00:01:35.040 let’s do the 31st of August. And I said
00:01:38.479 that at Rock and Worship Boot Camp.
00:01:40.960 Shout out to you guys. Love you guys. I
00:01:43.280 was at Rock and Worship Boot Camp and I
00:01:45.280 was saying, you know, that’s when Found
00:01:47.119 a Home’s going to come out the uh the
00:01:49.759 31st of August. And Gordon Wickert, who
00:01:53.600 you know works for Tones and Bones and
00:01:55.759 also runs uh Hope and Numbers, he you
00:01:58.880 know, he and I we were I think it was
00:02:01.200 lunch. We were having lunch and he he
00:02:03.680 was he asked me
00:02:06.079 was there a reason you chose 8:31? I’m
00:02:08.639 like,
00:02:10.479 "It’s the end of the summer and nothing
00:02:12.160 really beyond that." And he goes, "You
00:02:14.720 know, I I do have my Bible here." He
00:02:16.800 goes, "Well, do you know what 8:31 is?"
00:02:19.760 And I’m like,
00:02:20.400 >> well, let me let me just point out for a
00:02:22.640 second. Yes.
00:02:23.440 >> Gordon has this immense knack for
00:02:27.680 memorizing Bible verses. And that’s his
00:02:30.000 hope and numbers ministry. And he has
00:02:31.760 memorized literally thousands and
00:02:34.160 thousands of Bible verses. So somebody
00:02:36.720 will tell him he sees numbers everywhere
00:02:39.200 in life. And so in people’s birthdays on
00:02:42.959 speed limit signs, etc. So when you said
00:02:45.519 the date 8:31, he instantly went to the
00:02:49.599 Bible verse.
00:02:50.400 >> Exactly.
00:02:51.280 >> Go ahead.
00:02:51.840 >> 8:31 is what then are we to say about
00:02:55.200 these things? If God is for us, who is
00:02:58.400 against us?
00:02:59.280 >> Now, why is that so important in
00:03:01.680 relation to family?
00:03:02.640 >> Amen.
00:03:03.200 >> It it’s it’s literally in the chorus of
00:03:05.519 the song. And I had no clue. For who can
00:03:08.400 stand against me when my God is for me?
00:03:10.400 >> That’s what you sing in that song.
00:03:11.760 >> It’s literally what I sing in that song.
00:03:13.599 And I had I I wasn’t thinking about 8:31
00:03:16.560 in that way. So Gordon’s definitely a
00:03:19.120 blessing. I totally recommend you guys
00:03:21.519 check out Open Numbers and that you go
00:03:23.599 follow Gordon Wicker because he’s an
00:03:25.440 awesome dude.
00:03:26.480 >> Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. So, yeah,
00:03:28.319 that’s um one of those things, Divine
00:03:30.720 Intervention, that was certainly God
00:03:32.879 orchestrated. Wouldn’t you agree?
00:03:34.560 >> No, 100%. And I’ve seen God work with
00:03:36.959 that song in a lot of interesting ways.
00:03:39.920 I’ve seen people sing it not knowing the
00:03:42.879 song. I’ve seen people, you know, come
00:03:45.200 up to me and they’re like, they think
00:03:46.640 it’s a cover song. There was a kid one
00:03:48.400 time I played the song and he came up to
00:03:51.280 me and he’s like, "That brought me back
00:03:52.879 to youth group. We used to, you know,
00:03:54.799 uh, have that song played all the time."
00:03:56.159 And I’m like, "No,
00:03:58.959 >> it’s
00:03:59.360 >> no." Literally an original song.
00:04:02.400 >> Yeah. And the great thing about it,
00:04:03.920 Jack, is
00:04:05.920 we believe it’s Holy Spirit inspired.
00:04:08.879 >> And this song is a culmination, I
00:04:12.319 believe, of your entire life.
00:04:16.560 you finding a home in Yeshua
00:04:19.600 >> and
00:04:21.120 it’s starting out with you finding your
00:04:24.560 voice
00:04:25.759 >> in music
00:04:27.600 and
00:04:29.440 being bullied for having autism
00:04:34.080 >> and as a mom
00:04:37.280 I’m
00:04:38.880 incredibly grateful.
00:04:40.720 >> It’s so hard. I’m so incredibly grateful
00:04:43.680 to God because I was told you would
00:04:46.400 never speak. You would never be in
00:04:49.680 regular classes and here you are putting
00:04:53.120 out music. I knew I was going to cry.
00:04:57.360 For other moms out there, you know, I
00:05:00.880 know it’s a controversial subject, but
00:05:03.120 it happened to us. And we can’t we can’t
00:05:06.080 just deny the facts. Jack at six months
00:05:09.120 was testing out as a nine-month-old and
00:05:12.240 we went for his six-month vaccines and
00:05:14.160 within a week he was testing out as a
00:05:15.840 two-month-old and I didn’t know what
00:05:19.039 happened and the doctor said something
00:05:22.080 must have happened while he got his six
00:05:24.960 month shots and I freaked. I panicked. I
00:05:29.120 said, "Well, what does that even mean?"
00:05:31.039 And
00:05:32.720 for other parents out there that have
00:05:36.320 been told your child has autism, you
00:05:40.240 have so many questions.
00:05:42.639 And you know, Jack, I’d love to hear
00:05:45.919 from you your journey from not speaking
00:05:50.560 to speaking. I think you told me a story
00:05:52.720 once. You remember not speaking.
00:05:54.560 >> I do.
00:05:55.280 >> And so you didn’t even know you couldn’t
00:05:56.880 speak.
00:05:58.320 >> Yeah. No, I before I get into that, I do
00:06:00.400 want to say one thing. They said that I
00:06:02.000 wouldn’t be in normal classes. Right.
00:06:03.600 >> Right.
00:06:04.080 >> They were right. I took honors classes.
00:06:10.080 >> Can you state that question again one
00:06:11.600 more time?
00:06:12.400 >> So, what was it like? You told me a
00:06:15.280 story that, you know, for parents that
00:06:18.479 have non-verbal autistic kids, you
00:06:21.199 wonder if they even know that they’re
00:06:23.600 not talking. What was it like for you?
00:06:25.759 You said you remember being cuz we got
00:06:27.360 you in. You were diagnosed at three
00:06:29.680 >> and we got you into intervention school,
00:06:32.960 like a special education at the age of
00:06:35.520 three.
00:06:36.479 >> You told me, "Mom, I was fine. I didn’t
00:06:39.199 even know I wasn’t talking.
00:06:40.800 >> I didn’t know. I had conversations with
00:06:43.199 all the people that I knew in my
00:06:45.600 preschool. I didn’t know that there was
00:06:48.240 anything different for me versus anyone
00:06:50.160 else." So, you were actually talking to
00:06:53.120 them out loud and having full-on
00:06:55.440 conversations. You were just imagining
00:06:57.680 conversations that you were having.
00:06:59.120 >> No, I I literally remember certain
00:07:01.360 conversations to this day. I remember
00:07:03.120 there was uh
00:07:04.400 >> But this was in your head, right?
00:07:06.240 >> Yeah. It it I don’t that’s what I’ve
00:07:08.960 said in the past and so I’m going to go
00:07:10.880 off of that. I don’t remember it all too
00:07:13.520 well, but I do remember it. There was a
00:07:17.360 picture day and it was uh it was the
00:07:20.319 preschool, right? Yeah, it was picture
00:07:22.000 day
00:07:23.039 >> and I remember I was in the line for
00:07:27.039 pictures out in the hallway and I was
00:07:28.880 talking with a new student named Gloria
00:07:31.599 and I remember having that conversation.
00:07:33.840 I mean, some kind of conversation, but I
00:07:35.680 remember her name. I remember, you know,
00:07:38.319 it not being any different than me
00:07:39.680 talking with you right now.
00:07:41.599 But it wasn’t out loud.
00:07:42.880 >> Yeah.
00:07:43.360 >> It was not verbal.
00:07:44.479 >> You told me, which was so fun. You said,
00:07:47.360 "Mom, I preferred my voice in my head
00:07:50.319 than my actual voice." When it started
00:07:52.479 coming out,
00:07:53.919 >> you didn’t like it as much.
00:07:55.280 >> Mhm. And I And I stand by that. I I I
00:07:58.319 again, I don’t remember it now, but I’ll
00:08:00.560 stand by the statements I’ve said
00:08:02.160 before. Yeah.
00:08:03.680 >> And so you worked your butt off.
00:08:06.400 >> I did. I did. You worked your butt off
00:08:08.720 during school and nothing was going to
00:08:12.639 stop you.
00:08:14.240 >> Yeah. I refuse to be a victim. I refuse
00:08:16.639 to let anyone tell me what I can and
00:08:18.560 can’t do. I will do what I want and I’ll
00:08:21.680 find a way to do it.
00:08:23.120 >> And so if that’s taking a test two,
00:08:25.280 three times,
00:08:26.879 >> I’ll do it.
00:08:28.240 >> Yeah. So through this journey, you found
00:08:32.799 that kids weren’t too nice to you.
00:08:35.519 >> Mhm.
00:08:36.719 >> And do you want to go into detail uh
00:08:39.440 with that? So maybe kids that aren’t
00:08:41.839 autistic understand the depth of maybe
00:08:44.560 saying a simple
00:08:46.800 rude word or two to someone,
00:08:49.360 >> you know, especially, and I know they
00:08:51.200 don’t like to call it this high
00:08:52.560 functioning. You know, there’s all these
00:08:54.080 terms that are changing.
00:08:56.399 kids think, "Oh, hey, he doesn’t have
00:08:58.320 autism."
00:08:59.760 >> But tell it tell people what it’s like
00:09:02.000 having autism in that sense of what they
00:09:05.120 call high functioning, which I know,
00:09:07.040 don’t get on me, they don’t call it
00:09:08.959 that. I know a lot of people don’t call
00:09:10.320 it that anymore, but I think that’s
00:09:13.839 tricky to talk about. I would say that I
00:09:17.120 was definitely bullied. I’m having a
00:09:18.959 hard time remembering exa like all the
00:09:20.959 details about ex what exactly. But you
00:09:23.920 know I’d say that being someone who is
00:09:26.640 high functioning is sometimes difficult
00:09:29.519 because people just think you’re weird.
00:09:31.200 And I think you know with special
00:09:32.800 interest all of us autistic people have
00:09:34.800 special interests. It’s just just how we
00:09:37.200 are. And I think our special interests
00:09:40.399 can isolate us which is not fun. You
00:09:43.440 know, it can put you in a situation
00:09:44.800 where you don’t know how to read social
00:09:46.399 cues to start off with,
00:09:47.920 >> right?
00:09:48.320 >> And you know, I didn’t know I didn’t
00:09:50.080 understand sarcasm until I was in the
00:09:52.399 eighth grade.
00:09:52.959 >> Yeah. I remember that was a difficult
00:09:54.240 thing for you. You’d come home and tell
00:09:55.920 stories about uh what kids would say to
00:09:58.240 you and we’d have to explain to you or a
00:10:00.640 teacher.
00:10:01.839 >> You had teachers that were were horribly
00:10:05.200 sarcastic when they really shouldn’t
00:10:06.800 have been. It was difficult for you to
00:10:08.160 to understand that.
00:10:09.600 >> Eventually, I came to understand it.
00:10:10.800 But, you know, it was one of those
00:10:12.240 things where yeah, I couldn’t relate
00:10:14.320 with anyone. I because I had a special
00:10:16.720 interest in paleontology and then I
00:10:19.760 didn’t understand all the social cues
00:10:21.600 which made things difficult and so I
00:10:23.200 ended up just being by myself a lot of
00:10:25.519 the time and when I did find my groups
00:10:27.839 of people they were often very strange
00:10:31.360 outcast like people and it definitely
00:10:35.680 caused some issues because you know
00:10:38.320 often not not always but often these
00:10:41.200 outcasts and hurt people hurt other
00:10:43.760 people. Mhm. Oh, definitely. Hurt people
00:10:46.560 hurt people.
00:10:47.440 >> Yeah. Is there anything else you’d like
00:10:50.640 to hear from me with that?
00:10:52.720 >> Sure. Jack, what brought you to loving
00:10:56.800 the Lord as much as you do right now?
00:10:58.880 Was it Would you say it was through that
00:11:02.480 bullying or did you always feel like God
00:11:04.560 was with you?
00:11:05.839 >> I actually, you know, I wrote about, you
00:11:07.600 know, I wrote about that in my
00:11:08.959 apologetics class the other day. There
00:11:10.720 was a DQ on.
00:11:11.760 >> Would you like to say just real quick,
00:11:12.959 where are you going to college? And what
00:11:14.320 are you going for?
00:11:15.120 >> I am going to Liberty University and I
00:11:17.760 am getting my BS in religion with an
00:11:20.079 emphasis on apologetics right now.
00:11:22.000 >> Okay, so you can go back.
00:11:23.120 >> I was literally just writing about that.
00:11:25.120 I ended up really becoming strong with
00:11:27.760 my faith because of apologetics.
00:11:29.920 >> What does that mean for people if they
00:11:31.279 don’t know what that word means?
00:11:33.120 >> Defending the faith. That’s how I got
00:11:35.600 into it. It’s these logical arguments.
00:11:37.440 And a lot of people get scared of the
00:11:39.120 fancy, you know, $10 philosophical
00:11:41.920 words. I love them because
00:11:44.079 >> gravitate to them.
00:11:44.880 >> I gravitate towards them because they
00:11:46.560 explain super complicated subject
00:11:49.120 matters in such a simple way. One word.
00:11:52.000 >> There are so many times where mom and I
00:11:54.880 will have to stop you and say, "Jack, we
00:11:57.920 don’t understand what that word. We
00:11:59.440 don’t understand what you just
00:12:02.959 >> But you’re so kind when you’re
00:12:04.160 explaining yourself to people."
00:12:06.240 >> Yeah. I try to be, you know, I think,
00:12:08.160 you know, Christ prayed for unity in his
00:12:10.240 body. And so I really do believe in
00:12:11.920 that. I want to see the church unified
00:12:14.480 and not arguing within itself. And I,
00:12:17.200 you know, I also, you know, one of the
00:12:18.639 core passages and I I don’t know how
00:12:20.320 many people have core passages in
00:12:22.079 scripture, but I definitely have core
00:12:24.000 passages. And
00:12:25.360 >> what do you mean by a core passage?
00:12:27.680 >> This is a passage you can recall off the
00:12:29.760 top of your head and you use it in your
00:12:31.279 daily life
00:12:32.000 >> that he lives by.
00:12:33.120 >> Gotcha.
00:12:33.839 >> 1 Corinthians 5 is one of those passages
00:12:36.240 for me. We are not to judge those
00:12:38.240 outside the church. We are to judge
00:12:39.760 those in the church. I still want unity
00:12:42.240 in the church, but if you’re outside of
00:12:44.399 the church, I have no business judging
00:12:47.120 you. I have zero business judging you.
00:12:49.360 >> See, and that’s that’s something that’s
00:12:51.440 huge with non-believers who are outside
00:12:55.279 the church and feel like
00:12:59.120 Christians are constantly judging them.
00:13:02.320 They have a lot of resentment towards
00:13:04.320 that. And and that verse, your core
00:13:07.680 verse really would solve a lot of issues
00:13:10.240 for a lot of people.
00:13:11.040 >> It would solve so many issues. I cannot
00:13:13.120 tell you right now how much the the
00:13:16.480 Christian community and again I’m act
00:13:18.399 you know what I’m going to say this too.
00:13:19.600 I am pronomian which makes me a little
00:13:22.000 different. I believe that the mitzvot of
00:13:24.320 the Torah are still applicable today as
00:13:26.480 much as they can be. Obviously, there
00:13:27.920 isn’t a temple, so a lot of the laws
00:13:29.760 aren’t applicable, but the ones that
00:13:32.639 are, I try to keep. You know, I I do not
00:13:36.399 affirm gay relationships, but I love gay
00:13:39.360 people. I have had plenty of gay people
00:13:41.440 in my life. We’ve had plenty of
00:13:43.040 assistants that are gay. I still know
00:13:45.440 people to this day that I literally see
00:13:47.600 every single week who are gay, and I
00:13:50.240 love them. But, you know, with that, I’m
00:13:52.800 going to say this. How dare you judge
00:13:55.279 the LGBTQ community. How dare you? This
00:13:58.560 is just going to push people farther and
00:14:00.320 farther away from Christianity and
00:14:01.839 you’re doing a horrible job with that if
00:14:03.360 you’re spreading hate that way. It’s
00:14:05.519 like hating on fat people. Like, you’re
00:14:07.360 not supposed to be, you know, gorging on
00:14:09.519 food, but I don’t see all these
00:14:12.320 Christians coming up and being like,
00:14:14.079 "Oh, I hate fat people." Like, come on.
00:14:17.199 That’s not what we’re supposed to do. If
00:14:19.440 if someone is within the Christian faith
00:14:22.720 and they are engaging in
00:14:24.560 >> you’re saying that you’re being
00:14:25.600 gluttonous. Yes. With the
00:14:26.959 >> Yeah. Yeah. So if gluttony is bad
00:14:29.600 literally the hate towards the LGBT
00:14:32.079 community that so many Christians has I
00:14:35.360 mean have it’s like them hating on fat
00:14:39.040 people. It’s just like it it’s so
00:14:41.600 bizarre. If someone is within the
00:14:43.839 Christian community and they are
00:14:45.360 promoting gay relations, I would I there
00:14:48.560 there is judgment I will have there.
00:14:50.560 Respectful judgment, but judgment
00:14:52.880 certainly because that’s what I’m called
00:14:54.480 to do. But all this all this stuff about
00:14:57.519 political identity and just hatred
00:15:00.320 towards the world, it’s it’s ridiculous.
00:15:02.480 It enrages me because it really does
00:15:04.959 push people farther away than bring them
00:15:06.959 in closer. And so going back to you
00:15:10.800 finding, you know, Christ through
00:15:13.279 apologetics,
00:15:14.959 is that how you ended up writing your
00:15:17.040 song? Because I know a part of you
00:15:18.560 writing your song was that you felt lost
00:15:21.279 and you didn’t feel like you wanted to
00:15:23.360 be here. You felt like an outcast. You
00:15:25.680 felt judged. Can you talk more about
00:15:27.760 that?
00:15:29.040 >> Yeah, the song the song is it’s a
00:15:31.040 testimony. It’s uh I often I often get
00:15:35.920 into this cycle when I’m writing music
00:15:37.279 and I have to consciously think about
00:15:39.199 not doing it all the time because I
00:15:40.560 don’t want every song to be the same
00:15:41.839 thing. But one of the one of the books
00:15:45.839 that has been so close to me in my walk
00:15:48.399 is the book of Ecclesiastes.
00:15:50.959 This life and everything that we chase
00:15:53.360 here, it’s it’s fleeting. It’s a fog.
00:15:55.440 It’s about, you know, when you’re when
00:15:57.120 you’re down and you’re hurt, you look
00:15:59.519 for things to fill yourself up. You look
00:16:01.920 for joy. You look for happiness. You
00:16:03.759 look for all those things and you go,
00:16:06.079 "Well, this thing does it. This thing
00:16:08.240 does it. It’s uh pornography. It’s
00:16:10.480 gluttony. It’s uh whatever you can think
00:16:14.320 of. Whatever habit,
00:16:17.920 you’re looking for something to fill you
00:16:19.680 up. You get there and you’re lost
00:16:22.880 again." Well, and it’s not just those
00:16:25.680 negative things as well, but uh you
00:16:28.000 know, being goal oriented and achieving
00:16:31.040 goals is is important in life, but there
00:16:34.320 are people that become obsessed with it,
00:16:36.000 obsessed with getting ahead. And that’s
00:16:38.079 the same kind of thing. You feel like
00:16:40.000 you’re going to get to a certain
00:16:41.440 position, you’re going to get to a
00:16:42.800 certain station in life, a certain
00:16:44.880 income, and that things will will be
00:16:46.880 resolved. And it’s never the case.
00:16:48.800 >> You’ll never be happy. Solomon, one of
00:16:51.440 the wealthiest guys of all time. He
00:16:53.839 wrote Ecclesiastes
00:16:55.680 and he had 700 wives, 300 concubine, and
00:17:00.880 he he he he had the world. I mean, the
00:17:03.519 world was his oyster. And
00:17:06.799 he he wrote the book of Ecclesiastes,
00:17:09.439 which is the book about how nothing will
00:17:11.280 ever make you happy. Nothing. It’s
00:17:14.640 always fleeting, and someday you’re
00:17:16.799 going to die, become dust, and no one’s
00:17:18.720 going to remember you. Your life is
00:17:20.160 meaningless.
00:17:21.280 >> No, seriously. I mean, let’s let’s think
00:17:23.919 about our family really quick. Do you
00:17:25.439 know who lived in the third century from
00:17:28.079 our family?
00:17:29.120 >> No.
00:17:29.760 >> Exactly. We don’t know them. Maybe they
00:17:31.760 were great. Maybe they weren’t. They’re
00:17:33.039 bones now. Or not even bones. Maybe
00:17:34.880 they’re literal dust. Well, we’ve
00:17:36.559 actually had this conversation when
00:17:38.080 we’ve gone to graveyards to see, you
00:17:40.960 know, family members who have passed or
00:17:42.559 gone to funerals and you start to wander
00:17:44.799 around and look at the the uh
00:17:47.360 gravestones and it becomes very obvious
00:17:50.960 that within
00:17:53.760 a generation
00:17:56.000 all you are is a name on a headstone and
00:17:58.640 a date of birth and a date of death. And
00:18:00.799 that’s why you hope you can make an
00:18:02.320 impact to generations to come about
00:18:05.200 Jesus because your name will fade, his
00:18:07.840 will not.
00:18:08.640 >> Right.
00:18:09.679 >> Getting back on topic though with Found
00:18:12.000 a Home.
00:18:12.559 >> I love that.
00:18:13.520 >> Getting back on topic with Found on
00:18:15.440 topic, Jack.
00:18:16.240 >> You know, it’s a song about how I filled
00:18:18.799 myself up with things that were not very
00:18:21.120 good and how I found in myself that
00:18:25.120 those things were leaving me empty.
00:18:27.440 Eventually, I kind of just said, "God,
00:18:31.200 take the wheel. I can’t impress people."
00:18:33.760 I had this mindset that you had to be
00:18:36.000 good at something in order to be loved.
00:18:38.480 And I know that other people feel that
00:18:41.200 way, too. And I felt like I was good at
00:18:43.200 nothing. No one gave me attention. I
00:18:45.200 only felt like I was loved when I was
00:18:47.200 doing something that was was good or
00:18:49.520 impressive to someone. And I didn’t feel
00:18:52.000 like I was really impressive or good at
00:18:55.039 much of anything. And
00:18:58.559 I’m like, you know what?
00:19:01.679 People tell me about how loving God is.
00:19:04.799 Let me come to him.
00:19:07.280 Let me give my life to him. I just need
00:19:10.960 his love. I I was sick of trying to make
00:19:14.080 people proud. I just I from what I had
00:19:16.400 been told, I knew that I could come to
00:19:17.679 him and he’d love on me. And so I
00:19:19.760 embraced that.
00:19:21.600 >> And that’s found a home.
00:19:22.799 >> Yeah.
00:19:23.200 >> You found a home in Yeshua.
00:19:25.360 >> I did. I did and you know some people
00:19:28.480 some people you know they’ve uh not
00:19:30.799 directly but kind of indirectly
00:19:32.559 questioned why why is it I found a home
00:19:35.120 why is it not I have found a home I
00:19:39.120 found a home is the the way I say it
00:19:43.760 it’s said that way because of my
00:19:45.919 background in apologetics
00:19:48.160 if someone asks you
00:19:51.520 how did you go from this to where you
00:19:54.000 are now you can say I found a home.
00:19:57.520 You can say that it’s not and yes, you
00:19:59.840 have found a home, but it’s a it’s an
00:20:01.919 apologetic song.
00:20:03.280 >> Okay. All right. I can see that
00:20:05.120 distinction. That makes sense. There’s a
00:20:07.039 a couple of points in the song, and it’s
00:20:09.280 it’s one of those songs in my mind, as
00:20:12.080 as Megan was saying, mom was saying, we
00:20:16.080 really believe that it was an inspired
00:20:19.039 song. And I’ve told you several times
00:20:21.120 that, Jack, as much as that song is
00:20:23.919 yours, it’s not yours any longer. The
00:20:25.919 minute it’s released, this is this is
00:20:27.679 for the world. So, it’s not yours. But
00:20:29.760 there’s it it grabs you from the
00:20:32.080 beginning because the the melody is so
00:20:34.080 good. But there’s a couple of points
00:20:36.000 where I feel like when we’ve had people
00:20:38.799 listen to the recording of it, the
00:20:40.799 pre-release recording, there’s a couple
00:20:43.039 of points where I I I say to myself,
00:20:46.080 that’s exactly the moment that the
00:20:48.400 person gets the song and is into the
00:20:50.720 song. And one of them is when you talk
00:20:54.400 about uh being on Instagram and and you
00:20:58.559 say that
00:20:59.200 >> I love that part.
00:21:00.640 >> That line kind of cringes me.
00:21:02.159 >> Yeah. No, I know. Amazing.
00:21:04.159 >> But I think it speaks to people because
00:21:06.159 it talks about being alone, being on
00:21:09.440 Instagram, and coveting
00:21:11.679 >> what other people are posting. And
00:21:13.280 that’s so common these days with social
00:21:16.559 media. Everybody is always reviewing
00:21:19.120 their life in comparison to other
00:21:21.520 people. And I think when when listeners
00:21:24.480 hear that line about Instagram, whether
00:21:27.360 they were fully paying attention to the
00:21:29.120 song or not, I feel like at that moment
00:21:32.559 they really start paying attention to
00:21:34.480 it.
00:21:35.360 >> And then the next time is in the final
00:21:38.320 mix
00:21:39.520 >> when you yell out, "If you can hear me,
00:21:42.960 you’re not alone." And you do that
00:21:44.640 twice. And it’s the second one where
00:21:48.320 it’s played through the filter of a
00:21:51.280 megaphone
00:21:52.559 >> and I just imagine you yelling out to
00:21:56.320 anybody and everybody who can hear, "If
00:21:59.120 you can hear me, you’re not alone." And
00:22:02.159 I see people’s faces when you hit that
00:22:04.880 line in the song and everybody everybody
00:22:09.360 without fail nods their head. How does
00:22:12.960 that make you feel? It feels awesome.
00:22:14.880 You know, I got to see it at Rock and
00:22:17.039 Worship. You know, I’ve gotten to see it
00:22:18.559 at multiple places, but there is one
00:22:21.039 person in the crowd and I can remember
00:22:23.039 his face right now. And it’s right about
00:22:25.760 right at that point where I just saw his
00:22:27.760 va his face was very kind of
00:22:31.600 is very kind of he was down and right
00:22:34.559 when I said that his face lit up and he
00:22:37.280 started raising his hands and started
00:22:38.880 praising. I think that is a really
00:22:41.360 special moment in the song and almost
00:22:43.520 every single person who’s listened to to
00:22:45.280 the final mix is always, you know,
00:22:46.880 they’ve all said, "Oh, that part’s
00:22:48.400 really cool."
00:22:49.200 >> Yeah.
00:22:49.679 >> But I I do think you have a point with
00:22:51.120 the Instagram thing. It’s what I wrote
00:22:53.120 and then I don’t know. It was it was a
00:22:55.679 little while after where I was like, I
00:22:58.400 don’t know if that sounds right to me.
00:23:00.000 It sounds kind of kind of cheesy, kind
00:23:02.159 of weird. But then, you know, I’ve I
00:23:04.240 have come to realize that it does really
00:23:06.320 serve a good purpose. It’s one of those
00:23:08.159 lines that people definitely pick up on
00:23:11.360 and they’re like, "Oh, wait a second.
00:23:12.720 This song’s a little different. It’s not
00:23:14.400 every day that you hear songs about
00:23:15.760 Instagram." So, it’s uh it’s definitely
00:23:18.240 uh it’s a word that catches everyone’s
00:23:21.360 attention.
00:23:22.080 >> Yeah. And now, I know that you’re very
00:23:24.799 big on categorizing in in your mind
00:23:28.640 genres of music.
00:23:30.159 >> How would you categorize Found a Home?
00:23:33.120 I’ve thought about that one a lot
00:23:35.280 >> cuz it starts off with this really kind
00:23:37.600 of mystical. What’s the the instrument
00:23:40.159 that you use?
00:23:41.280 >> I’m using a canor in the beginning,
00:23:43.760 which is the same harp that David
00:23:46.240 played, King David. And then I’m also
00:23:48.320 blowing a chauffear in the beginning as
00:23:49.919 well, which is a ram’s horn.
00:23:51.760 >> And then don’t you have something called
00:23:52.720 an oud?
00:23:53.919 >> The oud’s not in the song. It’s in
00:23:55.600 another song, though.
00:23:56.960 >> Oh, your other song you’re recording
00:23:59.200 right now. But it’s it’s funny too to
00:24:01.200 see people watch
00:24:03.840 >> to watch people as they’re listening to
00:24:06.320 it for the first time that recording
00:24:08.559 >> and they hear the canor and they hear
00:24:10.720 the chauffear and it kind of fades out a
00:24:13.840 little bit and their first thing is what
00:24:15.840 kind of music am I listening to? It
00:24:17.919 sounds, you know,
00:24:19.679 >> uh, Middle Eastern, kind of out of touch
00:24:22.640 with,
00:24:23.760 >> you know, current popular music
00:24:26.640 >> and then it hits into the guitar. And
00:24:29.840 so, how would you characterize it?
00:24:32.159 >> I would call Found a Home an alternative
00:24:35.120 rock song because that that genre sweeps
00:24:39.279 a across a lot of different sounds. I
00:24:42.559 mean, like you got everyone with from
00:24:45.200 when when we’re talking alternative
00:24:46.799 rock, we can chuck like Imagine Dragons
00:24:48.960 fits in that category, weirdly enough.
00:24:50.720 It’s okay. Kind of strange to me. But
00:24:52.400 then you got you got Imagine Dragons and
00:24:54.159 then you got bands like My Chemical
00:24:56.559 Romance, you know, where you can just
00:24:58.080 shove them in this alternative rock
00:24:59.840 genre and it’s like, okay, the sounds
00:25:02.000 wide. It’s an easy label to put on the
00:25:04.240 song.
00:25:04.960 >> So, you’re talking about really popular
00:25:07.840 music that fits in that category and
00:25:10.240 Found a Home. I think you’re right. kind
00:25:11.760 of slides right in there as well.
00:25:13.279 >> But I I would I mean, if I had to break
00:25:16.880 down the song though, I’d say that it
00:25:18.559 has Middle Eastern elements in it. I
00:25:21.039 think it has uh it has hard rock
00:25:24.960 elements in it and it has some metal
00:25:26.960 elements in there as well, like uh the
00:25:28.799 lead guitar stuff. It’s definitely
00:25:30.640 something that screams out, oh, this
00:25:32.640 kind of sounds like a power metal song
00:25:34.400 just a little bit.
00:25:35.520 >> And then you have to do your screaming
00:25:37.520 in there as well. You
00:25:38.880 >> I didn’t do any screaming. There’s some
00:25:40.960 little bit of a growl in there that I
00:25:42.880 think you did.
00:25:43.520 >> You know, I I did use rasp on the last
00:25:45.760 chorus. And you know what? I’ll give it
00:25:48.240 to you. At the very end, I turned that
00:25:50.559 rasp into a little bit of a false chord
00:25:52.720 scream.
00:25:54.320 >> Just a little bit
00:25:55.279 >> because at your heart, you’re truly uh
00:25:58.720 into metal music.
00:25:59.520 >> Oh yeah, I love metal music.
00:26:00.480 >> And hold on. I’d like to say we knew
00:26:02.559 Jack liked singing from a very young
00:26:05.120 age. when he could start speaking which
00:26:07.360 was around five or so he would be in the
00:26:10.080 shower and one of his very first songs
00:26:13.120 that he sang
00:26:14.080 >> oh I don’t even
00:26:15.840 >> a big big whale
00:26:19.120 a big something about a big big whale
00:26:22.559 ate a small fish and a big fish what how
00:26:26.080 does that
00:26:26.559 >> yeah I don’t I don’t remember but you’re
00:26:28.640 right from the very beginning once he
00:26:30.720 could yeah once he could sing
00:26:33.120 >> to this day it’s still Jack in the
00:26:36.240 shower or walking around the house or,
00:26:38.240 you know, going in the car. Everywhere
00:26:40.480 he goes, he’s singing
00:26:41.919 >> and you know he’s in a good mood because
00:26:43.440 if something’s hurting his heart, it
00:26:44.960 hurts my heart triple cuz I’m his mom
00:26:47.600 and I’m like, "Oh, I wish I could hurt
00:26:49.360 for him, but I can’t." As moms know. And
00:26:52.799 the second I hear him singing, I’m like,
00:26:55.039 "Thank God he’s singing. He must be
00:26:57.360 happy now cuz he just starts singing all
00:27:00.159 around. When he’s not singing, it makes
00:27:01.840 me sad." I love hearing it. I love
00:27:04.240 hearing it all the time. I would like to
00:27:06.159 say though before we move back on to the
00:27:07.919 singing, there’s two things.
00:27:09.600 >> Mhm.
00:27:11.360 >> Jack is single.
00:27:12.880 >> I am. Yes.
00:27:14.320 >> And thing another thing that people
00:27:16.080 don’t know about Jack that Jack loves
00:27:18.080 music. He’s also a strongman lifter.
00:27:24.480 [Applause]
00:27:26.559 He lifts over 500 lb. I’m looking at his
00:27:29.600 thigh right now. It’s of steel. He has
00:27:32.559 thighs of steel.
00:27:35.200 He is. And he’s so humble. So he doesn’t
00:27:38.240 ever show anybody himself with his shirt
00:27:40.159 off. So yesterday he had a shirt off for
00:27:42.159 something. His sister was like doing
00:27:44.320 something. And I was like, "Jack, you’re
00:27:46.799 so muscular." And so Jack, what are you
00:27:50.159 looking for in a girlfriend? Cuz I know
00:27:51.360 you don’t have a lot of time.
00:27:52.240 >> Wait a minute. Welcome to Cross-examine
00:27:54.159 the dating game.
00:27:55.120 >> Okay.
00:27:55.760 >> I’m scared.
00:27:57.360 >> I know Jack, you have a lot on your
00:27:58.799 shoulders. So, you are going to school.
00:28:01.600 You’re an assistant director at our
00:28:03.360 nonprofit Tones and Bones. You’re also,
00:28:06.799 you know, you have the international
00:28:08.799 band and you’re doing all this music and
00:28:10.960 so many things. But if you could
00:28:13.919 describe maybe for the future, if God
00:28:18.000 chose you, because I know you’re very
00:28:19.360 much about God choosing you to be
00:28:21.120 married, what is the kind of girl you’re
00:28:24.559 looking for? I’d say that I’m looking
00:28:27.360 for someone who
00:28:30.240 loves God more than anything or anyone
00:28:34.559 first of all. And then I would also say
00:28:37.600 I’m looking for someone who is
00:28:38.960 beautiful. Someone I can have a
00:28:42.240 relationship like uh Christ has a
00:28:45.039 relationship with the church.
00:28:46.640 >> Are you a communicator, Jack? You know,
00:28:48.399 I am a big influence on your life and
00:28:50.320 I’m a huge communicator. I am a massive
00:28:55.679 communicator as well.
00:28:57.279 >> I always tell Jack, I’m like, "Jack,
00:29:00.480 girls may not appreciate how much you
00:29:02.880 communicate right now because they’re
00:29:04.159 all about two second texts, but when a
00:29:07.760 girl realizes how communication is so
00:29:10.320 important, you’re the diamond that
00:29:13.440 they’re looking for."
00:29:14.480 >> Yeah. No, for sure. I I’m definitely
00:29:17.520 someone who likes to call and, you know,
00:29:20.000 chat in person. I I mean texts are cool,
00:29:22.240 but like if you want to text me, it’s
00:29:25.200 it’s going to it’s going to take a
00:29:26.480 little bit. I like thinking about my
00:29:29.039 messages. I’m very intentional with my
00:29:32.000 messages.
00:29:32.559 >> You know what I found was beautiful? And
00:29:34.000 it obviously didn’t work out, but there
00:29:35.840 was this girl that had said something
00:29:38.480 about there was a song that described
00:29:40.480 her. And you know what Jack did,
00:29:42.640 everybody? He literally listened to the
00:29:45.039 song like three or four or five times to
00:29:48.559 really try to feel what it would be like
00:29:52.080 to be that girl. And then he wrote it
00:29:56.000 all down and told her what he felt that
00:29:59.919 that song meant and how he found, you
00:30:03.279 know, it to be so beautiful that she
00:30:05.039 would share that part of her life with
00:30:06.799 him. And I found that to be so
00:30:09.200 endearing. And but, you know, I am
00:30:11.200 biased. I’m his mom. But how sweet is
00:30:14.000 that? It’s so romantic.
00:30:16.640 >> Well, thank you. I appreciate that. You
00:30:18.320 know, I think music is another language.
00:30:20.480 And so, if you can tell me a song that
00:30:25.120 describes you, who you are,
00:30:28.960 I will listen to that song. I want to
00:30:30.960 know who you are. And again, music is
00:30:34.159 different than just saying, "Oh, this is
00:30:35.600 me." Music tells it in such a way that
00:30:39.600 it just can’t be said in words.
00:30:42.640 And you know, when it comes to dating,
00:30:45.360 we do argue a little bit because I’m a
00:30:46.960 big mama bear
00:30:48.240 >> and I only want the best for you.
00:30:50.159 >> And you’re just such a sweetheart. Guys,
00:30:52.559 I’m not just saying that. We could be
00:30:55.440 out doing something and someone is rude
00:30:59.120 to Jack to his face
00:31:02.799 and then let’s say they drop a piece of
00:31:05.440 paper that they’re holding or they need
00:31:07.279 the door opened. What does Jack do?
00:31:10.399 He opens the door and he goes over and
00:31:13.919 he says, "That’s what Jesus would do."
00:31:16.640 >> And I always say to the kids, even
00:31:20.720 though we’re your parents, we can always
00:31:23.360 learn from you.
00:31:24.640 >> Mhm.
00:31:25.279 >> And that’s something that I am so
00:31:28.159 grateful for that God is so has filled
00:31:31.840 you up so much that Ken and I learn from
00:31:35.840 you all the time.
00:31:37.279 >> Yeah. He kind of keeps us on the
00:31:38.480 straight and narrow, doesn’t he? Yes. I
00:31:40.240 mean, I think I told a dirty joke when
00:31:42.159 we were starting this and he pulled out
00:31:43.600 that Bible,
00:31:44.240 >> Ephesians 5
00:31:46.880 >> and was about to read that to me and you
00:31:49.039 know, at first you think, "Oh my gosh,
00:31:50.880 Jack, not" But he does. He reminds you
00:31:54.480 of
00:31:56.080 our love for God and his love for us.
00:31:58.480 And not that God doesn’t still love us
00:32:01.279 if we tell a dirty joke, but just
00:32:03.600 reminds us of our relationship, right,
00:32:06.240 >> with him. And
00:32:09.360 I think that that’s very cool that
00:32:13.840 we can be learning from you, Jack, and
00:32:15.600 we appreciate that very much.
00:32:17.679 >> Yeah. No, thank you very much. And I
00:32:19.279 actually, you know, I I do want to give
00:32:21.120 a little shout out to Apologia Church
00:32:24.159 and Jeff Durban in specific because I
00:32:26.240 only really started pulling out my Bible
00:32:28.320 for things like that after I heard a
00:32:30.080 sermon that he did at Apologia. He’s,
00:32:33.039 you know, he talked about how we should
00:32:35.200 be talking more like when we’re telling
00:32:37.440 other people about, oh, you shouldn’t do
00:32:39.039 this or you shouldn’t do that. You
00:32:40.640 should pull this out and say God says so
00:32:44.159 and because this is his word,
00:32:46.159 >> right?
00:32:46.960 >> And I’m like, okay, let me try it out.
00:32:49.360 And sure enough, I I think with you
00:32:50.960 guys, I would say, hey, we shouldn’t be
00:32:52.880 doing that. But the second I started
00:32:54.640 pulling this out and reading it, you
00:32:56.960 guys listen more.
00:32:57.840 >> But what’s great about it is, Jack, you
00:32:59.360 don’t do that to everybody. You know, we
00:33:02.320 have people that are Christians,
00:33:03.840 non-Christians, and the second they stop
00:33:06.480 to get to know you, they say you’re one
00:33:08.399 of the kindest, most loving,
00:33:10.159 nonjudgmental
00:33:11.840 people. And what’s great about you, even
00:33:13.519 though you’re going into apologetics,
00:33:15.600 and you love discussing different ways
00:33:18.720 that people view the Bible,
00:33:21.360 >> people always say, "You know what? I
00:33:23.120 don’t ever walk away feeling like Jack
00:33:25.519 shamed me for what I was believing. Jack
00:33:29.440 just asked a lot of questions. And so do
00:33:32.159 you find that you like to learn about
00:33:34.960 other people because it helps you learn
00:33:38.880 how to teach them more or what what do
00:33:40.640 you find when you’re having a
00:33:41.919 conversation with someone the most
00:33:43.679 interesting or what do you get out of
00:33:45.279 it?
00:33:46.159 >> I think you know with apologetics and
00:33:48.000 this is something you know I kind of
00:33:50.880 always knew it but I feel like I’ve
00:33:52.640 really stepped into it being in college
00:33:55.919 now. I like knowing people’s world views
00:33:58.880 because worldviews affect
00:34:02.080 every single part of a person’s life.
00:34:04.080 >> What do you mean by people’s worldviews?
00:34:05.919 >> Their morality. Do they believe that
00:34:08.320 there’s a creator? What does that
00:34:09.760 creator look like? Is he uh imminent? Is
00:34:13.199 or is he a you know a kind of deistic
00:34:16.320 kind of god where it’s a god that
00:34:18.560 created the world and doesn’t really do
00:34:20.239 anything now with it. Those things
00:34:21.839 affect daily life. And so even if
00:34:26.960 someone can’t be brought to the faith,
00:34:30.239 if I can ask questions just to
00:34:32.480 understand their perspective and then
00:34:34.079 you know even ask questions that can
00:34:35.760 make them just feel a little
00:34:37.040 uncomfortable about their own worldview
00:34:40.079 even if they don’t come to faith I know
00:34:42.639 I will have left that conversation
00:34:44.800 having them think about at least certain
00:34:46.879 aspects of their worldview and that to
00:34:50.239 me means that I will have helped that
00:34:52.560 person in their daily life
00:34:55.040 >> and we’ve seen better we’ve seen you do
00:34:56.960 that and and you don’t
00:34:59.040 >> even though you love debate and you love
00:35:01.680 arguing your point
00:35:03.040 >> I wouldn’t say arguing
00:35:04.160 >> no but you don’t in those situations
00:35:06.240 that you’re describing you don’t do it
00:35:08.240 in an argumentative manner you do it in
00:35:10.160 a very respectful and inquisitive manner
00:35:14.480 to where yeah like you’re saying it gets
00:35:17.920 them to think a little bit about what
00:35:19.359 they’re saying
00:35:20.000 >> and then that also comes back to what
00:35:22.400 I’m learning about more with autism.
00:35:24.560 Autistic people think people think that
00:35:26.240 I’m arguing with them, but I’m not. I
00:35:28.240 just need to dot every eye and cross
00:35:31.440 every tease because information to them
00:35:34.320 is so important. Not that it’s not
00:35:36.079 important to other people, but I just
00:35:38.480 learned something. I showed it to you on
00:35:40.400 TikTok the other day where they said
00:35:41.920 that the brain has these branches and
00:35:47.119 non-aututistic people, those branches
00:35:49.200 are pruned as they’re getting older and
00:35:53.200 autistic people those branches are left.
00:35:56.640 But what’s amazing to me is it’s almost
00:36:00.320 like it’s a positive for autistic people
00:36:02.480 because Jack is brilliant. So, it’s
00:36:06.320 almost like, did God have a plan of
00:36:08.640 dumbing some of us down, but then
00:36:10.160 leaving the autistic people? Brilliant.
00:36:12.320 It’s like a superpower to me.
00:36:14.560 >> A super race.
00:36:15.599 >> It’s a Right. It’s a super race. Cuz
00:36:18.160 Jack, what’s so brilliant is you can sit
00:36:20.400 there and practice something or learn
00:36:23.760 about something, whether it’s
00:36:24.720 paleontology,
00:36:26.240 the Bible, music, and Jack will learn 80
00:36:31.839 hours of it within this little period of
00:36:34.880 time because he’s so like he was talking
00:36:36.960 about they they hyperfocus on stuff or
00:36:39.839 they what was in the beginning, they
00:36:42.320 have
00:36:42.640 >> they have special interests.
00:36:43.680 >> Special interests. But when autistic
00:36:45.839 people have that special interest, they
00:36:49.680 can go a hundred times longer focusing
00:36:52.560 on that one thing and just becoming so
00:36:56.800 much better than the average
00:36:59.359 Joe or Megan.
00:37:00.720 >> Yeah. And you know what? One of the
00:37:02.240 things that uh you’ve said recently that
00:37:05.920 really kind of opened my eyes and and I
00:37:08.800 found so interesting in seeing your own
00:37:12.160 self-awareness of it develop is is
00:37:15.839 coming and having looked into a subject
00:37:19.599 and saying I I’ve got to tell you guys
00:37:21.520 about this and just going and then
00:37:24.079 afterwards you apologize and you say
00:37:25.760 sorry for info dumping like that.
00:37:27.440 >> Yep. Yep. I do that.
00:37:28.880 >> What What is that? It’s when you know it
00:37:31.760 you see it online with uh you know if
00:37:34.400 you’re on Instagram or if you’re on Tik
00:37:35.920 Tok or whatever it is there’s these
00:37:38.160 reels where uh you know people uh just
00:37:40.960 talk about dumping a whole bunch of
00:37:42.400 information on someone uh whether it’s a
00:37:44.720 special interest or if it is something
00:37:46.079 that they just learned about. It’s just
00:37:48.320 this uh this thing that we have in us
00:37:50.880 where it’s like we learned something
00:37:52.320 cool and we got to share it
00:37:54.079 >> and it’s and it’s sharing all of it.
00:37:56.240 >> Yeah. You said last week at Tones and
00:37:58.880 Bones, you said, "Mom, I was telling
00:38:01.119 everybody about my fossils. I felt so
00:38:03.839 autistic."
00:38:05.040 >> I was so autistic because paleontology
00:38:08.400 was legit, like you guys know, it was a
00:38:11.520 big special interest for me. And so
00:38:14.320 being in front of, you know, fossil
00:38:16.720 cases, I can just go all day talking
00:38:19.200 about fossils.
00:38:20.480 >> Well, let’s give an example of that. So,
00:38:22.560 Spinosaurus, two legs or four?
00:38:24.880 >> Two. I I think that’s like everyone’s
00:38:26.960 consensus at this point.
00:38:28.560 >> Tell me the the debate uh several years
00:38:30.960 back. How did it how did it go?
00:38:32.800 >> Well, are we really getting into this?
00:38:36.000 >> Well, it started with a paper that was
00:38:38.880 released in 2014 by uh Ibrahim Atal.
00:38:43.680 He’s our Ibrahim. He had you know he
00:38:45.599 headed that paper and uh we also have a
00:38:48.960 dear friend Dr. Paul Serino from the
00:38:50.640 University of Chicago who is also
00:38:52.240 involved with that paper.
00:38:53.119 >> And you’ve been on a dinosaur dig with
00:38:54.480 him. I have been on a dig with uh Mr.
00:38:57.200 Paul Serino. Yeah. There was a neoype
00:38:59.520 discovered and I think it was back in
00:39:01.520 2008. It was uncovered and it was sold
00:39:05.359 and there’s this huge story about, you
00:39:07.440 know, how they ended up tracking down
00:39:09.760 the fossil dealer in Morocco and they
00:39:13.040 found the original dig site and they
00:39:14.560 were able to confirm that it was a
00:39:16.560 single individual. Though I shouldn’t
00:39:19.440 say confirm, there are some people like
00:39:21.680 uh like uh Dr. Scott Hartman who would
00:39:25.520 say that the neoype is actually a
00:39:28.240 chimera. Generally speaking, it’s seen
00:39:30.960 as a single individual and it possessed
00:39:34.079 very short hind limbs compared to its
00:39:36.960 relatives.
00:39:37.920 >> What is a chimera? Is that a dinosaur?
00:39:39.839 >> A chimera is when you have like multiple
00:39:42.800 individuals in one specimen.
00:39:44.960 >> What What does that mean?
00:39:46.240 >> So that means like
00:39:47.200 >> I’m so confused. Like that means that if
00:39:50.000 you and I were buried together, they
00:39:52.960 found some of my bones and found some of
00:39:54.720 your bones, they said, "Oh, this belongs
00:39:57.920 to one person, even though it was two
00:40:00.240 different people that were buried
00:40:01.359 together."
00:40:01.920 >> Oh, okay. I kind of get it.
00:40:04.160 >> Or if you were buried, I don’t know, if
00:40:05.760 you were buried with a 5-year-old child
00:40:07.920 and they didn’t find your legs, but they
00:40:09.839 found the 5-year-old child’s legs and
00:40:12.000 they’d be like, "Oh, this Megan person
00:40:14.800 had really, really short legs. She’s a
00:40:17.520 new species.
00:40:18.720 >> I am a new species. Anyways, I’m an
00:40:21.200 interesting species.
00:40:23.040 >> Yeah. Anyway, there there’s a little bit
00:40:24.400 of my autism.
00:40:25.440 >> Yeah. No, that I was actually
00:40:27.760 envisioning letting you go with an
00:40:29.599 answer for however long it takes and
00:40:32.160 then telling Aaron when you’re editing
00:40:34.079 this, just speed up that part of this.
00:40:36.480 Nobody hears what he says, but it’s just
00:40:38.240 really Jack talking fast. So, Jack, as a
00:40:40.880 19-year-old with autism and most people
00:40:43.680 not knowing that you have autism, and
00:40:45.599 some people say don’t label it or
00:40:47.280 whatever,
00:40:49.280 what would you like to tell people about
00:40:52.560 being you
00:40:54.160 >> to get them to understand how autistic
00:40:56.640 people work? Because a lot of times it
00:40:59.280 was the younger, right? There were so
00:41:00.880 many young kids with autism. Now, it’s
00:41:02.480 three out of 54 or something like that.
00:41:05.040 And you’re going to be getting these
00:41:06.480 older people now because I think when I
00:41:09.040 was younger adults, there’s not too many
00:41:11.280 older adults that are diagnosed with
00:41:13.200 autism. I know that, you know, it wasn’t
00:41:15.040 being diagnosed a lot. What would you
00:41:17.040 like people to know about
00:41:20.480 people with autism and how they should
00:41:23.280 maybe
00:41:24.960 um react around them or be around them
00:41:28.000 or try to understand them better? What
00:41:29.760 would you like to share with that? I
00:41:31.839 would say that if you’re interacting
00:41:34.319 with someone who’s autistic, obviously
00:41:36.319 we’re all a little different. Uh we all
00:41:38.880 operate in different different ways. We
00:41:40.560 all act.
00:41:42.400 >> We don’t always know, you know, what
00:41:44.000 someone else is dealing with. And that
00:41:45.359 goes for every everyone in general. But
00:41:47.839 with autistic people, if you’re coming
00:41:49.760 across them, I I would say first just,
00:41:52.800 you know, find their special interest,
00:41:55.680 get them talking about their special
00:41:57.280 interest and from there you will get to
00:42:00.079 learn a little bit more about them and
00:42:01.920 maybe branch off into something else.
00:42:04.240 But I would say be don’t don’t take
00:42:07.119 offense at things that they’re saying.
00:42:08.960 Don’t uh
00:42:11.920 don’t think of them as strange. They can
00:42:14.240 be different, but don’t think of them as
00:42:16.640 strange. Don’t write them off for being
00:42:18.720 socially awkward. I would say look for
00:42:21.280 the things that are endearing in them.
00:42:23.680 Uh not the things that are not so
00:42:25.359 endearing.
00:42:26.640 >> That’s true. Cuz I know one time I think
00:42:28.240 we’re at Tones and Bones and a girl was
00:42:29.920 saying something and you said, "Oh,
00:42:31.440 that’s so goofy of you." But you didn’t
00:42:34.079 mean goofy like you were insulting her.
00:42:36.400 You You used the word goofy like, "Oh,
00:42:38.480 that’s so silly."
00:42:39.680 >> I don’t think I’m the only person that
00:42:41.920 thinks of goofy that way, though. I
00:42:43.520 refuse to believe that goofy is like
00:42:46.560 funny, quirky, cute, you know? That’s
00:42:48.640 that’s goofy.
00:42:49.680 >> Sure.
00:42:50.240 >> Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe that’s my
00:42:52.560 old-fashionedness then.
00:42:54.160 >> I think it is.
00:42:55.599 >> I’ll I’ll take that.
00:42:56.880 >> So, let’s get back to your music for a
00:42:58.640 minute. What’s your process when you’re
00:43:00.800 writing songs? How do you do it?
00:43:03.760 >> Well, that’s let’s there’s there’s
00:43:06.000 multiple ways I’ve written
00:43:07.119 >> Wait, hold on. Hold on. I got to have
00:43:08.400 This is a question I ask everybody, and
00:43:09.920 I don’t mean to interrupt you, Jack.
00:43:12.079 What’s your favorite sandwich?
00:43:14.800 >> You have to get it in here.
00:43:15.680 >> No, no, no. This is a whole debate
00:43:17.119 between us. What is a sandwich?
00:43:20.560 >> We’ve had this debate. It’s gone on for
00:43:22.800 years now. Sandwich.
00:43:24.720 >> Is quesadilla a sandwich? Is that what
00:43:26.240 he said?
00:43:26.640 >> I’m going to be evil and say pizza is my
00:43:28.880 favorite sandwich.
00:43:29.599 >> Not a sandwich.
00:43:30.640 >> Openfaced sandwich.
00:43:31.920 >> It’s not a sandwich.
00:43:32.640 >> It’s an openf faced sandwich. But in all
00:43:34.960 reality, it’s probably the cheeseburger.
00:43:38.000 >> But that’s a burger. That’s not a
00:43:39.280 sandwich. A cheeseburger is not a
00:43:41.359 sandwich. Since when?
00:43:42.800 >> It is a sandwich.
00:43:44.000 >> Absolutely. It’s a kind of sandwich.
00:43:45.680 >> It’s a burger.
00:43:46.800 >> No,
00:43:48.640 >> a sandwich has bread, not a bun.
00:43:50.640 >> I would be more willing to accept a
00:43:52.400 cheeseburger as a sandwich than a pizza.
00:43:54.240 >> Well, and actually legally, this this is
00:43:56.560 my autism coming out again. In New York,
00:44:00.079 in New York, breaded chicken is legally
00:44:02.880 recognized as a sandwich.
00:44:04.960 >> Not a sandwich.
00:44:05.760 >> Chicken nuggets are sandwiches.
00:44:07.200 >> They’re not sandwiches. Parmesan is a
00:44:08.960 sandwich with some noodles.
00:44:10.240 >> Absolutely.
00:44:10.800 >> But you have that interesting story
00:44:12.160 about Subway in what country was that?
00:44:14.560 >> Ireland. Ireland. So I guess in Ireland
00:44:18.640 cake and bread are taxed differently.
00:44:22.240 And so Subway was selling their bread as
00:44:26.000 bread, but the Irish law it actually
00:44:29.520 goes into how cake and bread is defined
00:44:33.119 >> like their sugar content.
00:44:34.800 >> Yes.
00:44:36.079 Subways bread contained so much sugar
00:44:40.720 that it actually in the eyes of the law
00:44:44.319 should have been classified as cake and
00:44:45.920 they were avoiding taxes.
00:44:47.680 >> That’s funny. We only have a couple more
00:44:50.319 minutes and I know we were talking about
00:44:52.800 music with Jack. We’re all over the
00:44:54.880 place. Jack, what would you like to talk
00:44:57.040 about the last two minutes before we end
00:44:59.599 this beautiful podcast with you? I guess
00:45:02.480 just real real quick because you know
00:45:04.480 people are kind of curious about my
00:45:06.560 faith sometimes like it’s like what are
00:45:09.119 you? It’s like you believe in so many
00:45:11.280 different things. If I could break it
00:45:13.280 down it’s this. I am a reformed
00:45:16.319 pronomian Baptist.
00:45:18.640 >> Do you have to do works to be saved?
00:45:21.040 >> No. And that’s what I was about to get
00:45:22.640 into.
00:45:23.359 >> Okay.
00:45:24.079 >> So I am reformed in my sotiology which
00:45:28.000 means like you know salvation issues of
00:45:30.560 salvation. I do affirm tulip, which I
00:45:33.280 know will make some of you mad out
00:45:35.119 there.
00:45:35.520 >> I don’t know.
00:45:36.240 >> No, don’t get into it. We don’t have
00:45:37.599 time.
00:45:38.079 >> I’ll get into the acronym real real
00:45:39.680 quick. Total depravity. All of man is
00:45:42.560 totally depraved. We are in need of
00:45:44.240 saving and we cannot come to God on our
00:45:46.079 own because the Bible says that uh the
00:45:49.200 way of man’s heart, there’s nothing we
00:45:51.920 can do to please him. It is wicked. Our
00:45:54.800 hearts are wicked and we can’t do
00:45:56.319 anything to please him. Then you have
00:45:57.760 unconditional election, which means that
00:46:00.079 God elected
00:46:02.480 those who would be saved unto salvation.
00:46:05.359 Then you have limited atonement. This is
00:46:06.960 the one that really, you know, people
00:46:09.200 get a little weird about, but you know,
00:46:11.839 in Isaiah 53, it says that Christ would
00:46:14.480 come to die for the many. And I would
00:46:16.800 affirm that in a way that what’s the
00:46:20.319 word? He died for the many in an
00:46:23.359 effectual salvific way. But he died for
00:46:26.800 all in the sense that
00:46:28.480 >> going over my head here.
00:46:29.599 >> No idea what he’s talking about right
00:46:30.960 now.
00:46:31.200 >> Salific.
00:46:32.400 >> Please continue.
00:46:33.280 >> So
00:46:34.880 >> Christ died for the many in an effectual
00:46:39.760 uh salvific way, but he died for all in
00:46:42.880 the sense that we live in a world that
00:46:45.680 is highly influenced by Christian
00:46:48.319 principles. And if it weren’t for Christ
00:46:50.800 dying, I would say that we would not be
00:46:52.640 living in the world that we do today
00:46:54.160 because Christianity has been
00:46:55.760 historically dominant. And so in that
00:46:58.400 sense, he did die for all. Then you have
00:47:00.480 irresistible grace. So that concept uh
00:47:03.920 total depravity. Going back there real
00:47:06.160 quick, we’re not able to do anything
00:47:08.160 that pleases God on our own. And so
00:47:11.040 there’s this thing called irresistible
00:47:12.720 grace. God comes to us and he gives us
00:47:14.480 the grace to chase after him. And then
00:47:18.240 we have perseverance of the saints which
00:47:19.920 is this promise that God will sanctify
00:47:22.560 us and keep us until the day of
00:47:24.880 judgment. Then pronomianism which I kind
00:47:27.200 of went into earlier. I believe that all
00:47:29.760 the mitzvote of the Torah are still
00:47:31.839 applicable today. And so you know I
00:47:34.240 observe the Sabbath. I observe the feast
00:47:37.599 days. I am kosher. I wear uh zit seats.
00:47:41.520 After that I am a Baptist because of my
00:47:43.760 view on the sacraments. And yes, we can
00:47:45.920 get into a debate on different
00:47:47.599 confessional stuff about Baptist
00:47:50.400 history, but I’m just going to look at
00:47:52.640 it how Baptists generally look at it
00:47:54.720 today. I believe in uh a memorialist
00:47:59.599 view of the Eucharist. I believe that
00:48:01.599 when you take part at the Lord’s table,
00:48:06.319 when you’re eating the bread and
00:48:07.760 drinking the wine, they’re
00:48:09.359 representations there. You’re not
00:48:11.119 literally drinking Christ’s blood and
00:48:13.760 you’re not literally eating his flesh.
00:48:15.920 And nor do I affirm Calvin’s view that
00:48:18.240 you are somehow re receiving it
00:48:20.800 spiritually because that would be in
00:48:22.960 violation to the Torah. I affirm a
00:48:25.280 memorialist view. And William Lane Craig
00:48:27.520 is actually the guy that got me there. I
00:48:29.119 was I was on the spiritual presence path
00:48:31.359 for a while because of Gavin Ortland.
00:48:33.760 And then I saw William Lang Craig. He
00:48:35.680 made a video on uh Gavin Ortland’s view
00:48:38.800 of real spiritual presence and he
00:48:41.200 completely went off on him and I’m like,
00:48:43.520 you know what, maybe maybe William Lane
00:48:45.280 Craig has a point
00:48:46.160 >> and we don’t know these people.
00:48:47.359 >> Yeah. No, you don’t. But the next thing
00:48:49.760 I would say is I would affirm baptism as
00:48:53.839 a seal of salvation. I’m not saying that
00:48:56.720 you have to be baptized to be saved. But
00:48:59.920 I will say that if you are not baptized
00:49:03.040 and a saved person,
00:49:05.599 that’s kind of weird. If you’re saved,
00:49:08.079 you’re going to be baptized. If you
00:49:10.240 haven’t been baptized, please get
00:49:12.000 baptized because Peter wrote that uh
00:49:15.040 baptism is what saves us. Not in an
00:49:17.280 effectual way, but it’s kind of like uh
00:49:20.880 you graduate
00:49:22.880 without going on the graduation stage.
00:49:24.960 Yes.
00:49:25.599 >> True.
00:49:27.200 But the day of graduation is when you’re
00:49:28.880 on that graduation stage.
00:49:31.839 >> Okay?
00:49:32.480 >> That’s kind of like baptism. You don’t
00:49:34.400 need baptism to be saved, but it’s
00:49:36.960 pretty weird if you you know, if you if
00:49:39.280 you’re a graduating student and you
00:49:41.440 don’t go on that graduating stage, it’s
00:49:43.359 it’s kind of weird.
00:49:44.960 >> Is that it? Because I’d like you to give
00:49:46.880 everyone your handle if they’d like to
00:49:48.559 listen to your song.
00:49:50.079 >> Yeah. So, uh, you can look me up on
00:49:52.480 Instagram. I’m Jack
00:49:55.440 Rete, R A T A Y. And then, you know, I
00:49:59.119 have all the other pages on there
00:50:01.280 already.
00:50:02.000 >> And where’s your song coming out?
00:50:04.000 >> On every platform you can think of, even
00:50:06.400 some really weird Russian music
00:50:09.680 streaming services that I don’t even
00:50:11.119 know the name.
00:50:11.599 >> What’s the name of your band?
00:50:12.880 >> Three Heart Cross. That is my band. And
00:50:15.200 you know, I was thinking about it before
00:50:16.800 the start of this podcast. You were
00:50:18.319 talking about how I lift. I want to give
00:50:20.079 out give a shout out to KP3 coach. Kevin
00:50:24.400 has been a great coach for me for a
00:50:26.319 number of years and I just want to show
00:50:28.240 him love and uh just tell him thank you
00:50:30.720 for all the work that you have put into
00:50:32.960 me over the years.
00:50:33.920 >> He’s so sweet. He keeps naming all these
00:50:35.440 people. Jack, you’re such a sweetheart.
00:50:37.040 We love having you. We love that you
00:50:39.359 your heart. We love your musical
00:50:43.119 abilities. I love you as a son and I
00:50:46.480 can’t wait to see what God brings to
00:50:50.160 your life moving forward.
00:50:51.680 >> And you’ve got uh you’ve got other songs
00:50:53.680 coming out lined up after Found a Home.
00:50:56.559 >> I do.
00:50:57.359 >> So, we’ll be looking forward to all
00:50:58.640 those. We’ll have you back to talk about
00:51:00.079 them as well.
00:51:00.800 >> Yeah. Thank you very much. Maybe next
00:51:02.400 time we can talk about a metal song.
00:51:05.760 >> I I don’t want to blow out Aaron’s ears,
00:51:07.440 but I’d say maybe you should do a quick
00:51:09.280 scream before you
00:51:10.079 >> No, I’m not screaming at all. No. Well,
00:51:12.720 thank you for joining us again on
00:51:14.319 Crossexamine with the Gerbers. Don’t
00:51:16.960 forget, we own Gerber Injury Law and
00:51:19.280 we’ve been handling injury cases for
00:51:21.200 nearly 30 years. So, give us a call if
00:51:24.319 you’re injured and we will talk to you
00:51:26.400 later. Ciao.