Podcast:
Giant Hats to Shark Tank’s Fastest Deal: Gabe Cooper’s Faith & Innovation | Cross Examined Ep. 12

00:00:00.240 Welcome to Cross-examine with the
00:00:01.680 Gerbers. Today we have Gabe Cooper and
00:00:04.880 as you know, I’m Megan Gerber and Ken
00:00:07.040 Gerber.
00:00:07.759 >> Hey everyone, welcome.
00:00:12.639 This is our podcast where we like to
00:00:14.799 bring together faith, family, law, and
00:00:17.520 our ministry. And this guest, Gabe
00:00:20.480 Cooper, is a perfect representation of
00:00:22.640 all those things as well. How are you,
00:00:24.320 Gabe?
00:00:24.640 >> Thanks for having us, man. We’re really
00:00:26.400 uh grateful to be here and love what you
00:00:28.320 guys are doing. So, great job.
00:00:29.840 >> Thank you so much. Judging from the
00:00:31.439 shirt, obviously, you are with Noggin
00:00:34.960 Boss. This is this is your business.
00:00:37.200 This is your your baby, right?
00:00:38.640 >> It is. Yeah. I’ve had a thousand bad
00:00:40.320 ideas in my life that uh thankfully my
00:00:42.399 wife said no to. Uh but this one just
00:00:44.640 had enough kind of fun, creativity, joy
00:00:47.360 that uh it was like, "Hey, let’s do
00:00:49.039 this. Let’s keep pursuing it and see
00:00:50.640 what happens."
00:00:51.280 >> So, how did it start?
00:00:53.039 >> So, if you look at like the sports
00:00:55.120 world, right? There’s been no innovation
00:00:57.199 for years. You’ve got a cheese head
00:00:59.039 that’s been around for 30 something
00:01:00.559 years. True.
00:01:01.359 >> You’ve got a foam finger that’s been
00:01:02.800 around for 40 years. No innovation and
00:01:05.438 that’s for one team. So I’m like, well,
00:01:07.119 we love hats, so let’s create something
00:01:09.040 that everybody can actually enjoy. Um,
00:01:11.439 so we came up with a big hat. We tried
00:01:13.280 different sizes at first. We had some
00:01:14.880 that were too small, some that were too
00:01:16.720 big, and then we kind of honed in on
00:01:18.479 what was stadium legal, and then Nagamos
00:01:20.960 was born.
00:01:21.680 >> So there’s there’s stadium legal when it
00:01:23.920 comes to the size of a a hat. there is
00:01:26.400 cuz you don’t want to block the view of
00:01:28.240 somebody behind you or next to you. So,
00:01:31.040 um you know, again, we wanted fans to be
00:01:32.720 able to have a wearable collectible that
00:01:34.960 they could bring to
00:01:36.000 >> I think that cheese hat is huge.
00:01:37.600 >> It’s giant. Yeah,
00:01:39.680 >> there’s no way that’s legal.
00:01:40.960 >> Apparently stadium legal.
00:01:43.439 >> So, you can’t block somebody ahead.
00:01:46.560 What? I wonder if somebody with big hair
00:01:49.040 can.
00:01:49.360 >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep out. You
00:01:50.640 know, in Dallas everything’s big, right?
00:01:52.560 So, you got to watch out for the big
00:01:53.520 hair.
00:01:53.840 >> Hair alert. In the 80s, I would have
00:01:55.439 been kicked out. You know that aquinet,
00:01:58.079 spray it, use the blow dryer.
00:02:00.960 >> I would have been kicked out for sure.
00:02:02.560 >> That’s right.
00:02:03.200 >> All right. So, the exciting thing for a
00:02:05.840 lot of people is your experience on
00:02:09.520 Shark Tank.
00:02:10.399 >> Mhm.
00:02:10.878 >> How did you even get on Shark Tank?
00:02:12.720 >> So, it was a wild ride. I mean, even
00:02:14.640 just when we launched in 2020 in
00:02:17.599 January, you all know what happened two
00:02:20.080 months later. Like, the whole world shut
00:02:21.760 down. So again, we came out of the gates
00:02:23.760 thinking like we’ve got something here.
00:02:25.599 We’ve got momentum and then to
00:02:27.840 completely be deflated by every market
00:02:30.560 that we wanted to go after was shut
00:02:32.959 down. So there were no sports, no
00:02:34.560 events, nobody with budgets. So we were
00:02:37.200 like, well, that dream’s over. But
00:02:38.959 again, during that time, we just kind of
00:02:40.400 had to figure out how to be good
00:02:42.000 business people, how to be good
00:02:43.280 stewards, and relationships. We made a
00:02:45.840 ton of relationships during that time
00:02:47.360 because nobody else had anything to do.
00:02:49.440 They had a lot of time on their hands,
00:02:50.800 right? And so during that, you know,
00:02:52.560 again, everybody always dreams like,
00:02:54.080 man, if I could only get on Shark Tank,
00:02:55.599 if I could only get on this. And so we
00:02:57.599 applied and uh, you know, there was
00:02:59.840 about 40,000 applicants the season that
00:03:01.920 we actually applied for. And every week
00:03:04.720 it was just like u, you know, you’re
00:03:06.480 trying to make it to the next late next
00:03:08.239 week, next week. So you know, we got
00:03:10.159 that exposure and our strategy was a
00:03:12.720 little bit different going in, but we
00:03:14.000 were actually the fastest closed deal in
00:03:15.519 Shark Tank history. And if you watch the
00:03:18.000 show, again, my poor family, they had to
00:03:20.000 watch every episode leading up to it
00:03:22.159 because we wanted to know like what are
00:03:23.680 the sharks like, who who would go for
00:03:25.599 what deal? And again, going beforehand,
00:03:27.760 we had to know what we were willing to
00:03:29.440 do, right before we walked in cuz once
00:03:31.280 the lights hit you, you’re literally
00:03:32.879 just in go mode. And um our strategy was
00:03:35.840 different because every time we watch
00:03:37.120 the show, entrepreneurs overvalue their
00:03:39.680 business and they undervalue what
00:03:41.440 they’re going to give away in equity.
00:03:43.040 So, we said, why not switch that? like
00:03:44.799 we’re truly here for a deal, so let’s
00:03:47.280 not play games. And
00:03:48.480 >> if you want to be successful, figure out
00:03:50.319 how to do it.
00:03:51.040 >> Mhm. So, we came out very generous and
00:03:53.040 we said, "We’re not here for a lot of
00:03:54.239 money and we’re going to give you a lot
00:03:55.360 of equity." And every shark was like all
00:03:57.120 over it. So, it was really fun to kind
00:03:58.879 of watch them, you know, fight over uh,
00:04:01.439 you know, who could close the deal with
00:04:02.799 us.
00:04:03.439 >> And it happened fast.
00:04:04.560 >> It did very fast. And so much so, we
00:04:06.720 didn’t even know it, but when we got
00:04:08.000 off, all the producers were super
00:04:09.680 excited and there was a lot of energy in
00:04:11.280 the room and we were just like, "Yeah,
00:04:12.879 it was great. like we got a deal and
00:04:14.480 they were like no you were actually like
00:04:16.320 that was the fastest closed deal in in
00:04:18.000 the show’s history. So um again just a
00:04:20.399 really cool God moment God door open
00:04:22.560 because again when you run the numbers
00:04:24.320 like that’s that’s a lot that has to
00:04:26.320 happen for that to turn out like that
00:04:28.160 >> and it’s obviously been beneficial for
00:04:30.560 the brand.
00:04:31.360 >> It has. Yeah. Again like we when you’re
00:04:33.440 launching something new like it’s a a
00:04:35.680 new disruptor in that in that industry.
00:04:38.240 Nobody knew they needed a big hat 5
00:04:40.320 years ago. So again, when you’re talking
00:04:42.639 to entrepreneurs and the challenges of
00:04:44.880 just trying to come up with a product
00:04:46.320 that’s already out there or making a
00:04:48.080 product better, we had to launch a
00:04:50.080 product that nobody even knew they
00:04:51.600 wanted. So out of the out of the heels
00:04:54.320 of COVID, so imagine that struggle. And
00:04:57.120 again, we’re still finally getting every
00:04:59.120 new league we encounter, every new
00:05:00.639 license we go after, nobody’s ever had a
00:05:03.040 forecast for a big hat before. So again,
00:05:05.360 we have to just know the value and the
00:05:08.000 of what our product does. And how did
00:05:09.440 you stay positive during that time
00:05:10.960 during co was there a lot of prayer
00:05:12.639 going on? Was there a specific verse
00:05:14.560 that you went to over and over again?
00:05:17.360 >> Yeah. So I mean for us like my life
00:05:19.199 verse is Philippians 3:134 and the goal
00:05:22.960 behind you know that verse is just
00:05:26.000 because like I might have done things in
00:05:27.600 the past good or bad I can’t count on
00:05:30.000 that for the future and I got to
00:05:31.280 continue to to continue to work hard
00:05:33.360 continue to put God first continue to
00:05:35.280 trust the process. And so, um, always
00:05:37.919 having that mindset of where you’re
00:05:40.000 grounded in your faith. Entrepreneurs,
00:05:42.160 we get beat up every single day. No
00:05:45.120 doubt. Um, and what most people only see
00:05:47.840 on the surface is the highlight reel.
00:05:49.600 So, again, when you go to Nogen Boss,
00:05:51.280 you see the social media, you see the
00:05:53.520 the highlights of everything.
00:05:55.520 >> They don’t see the knockdowns that we
00:05:57.360 get daily. And again, entrepreneurs
00:06:00.240 think like, "Oh, some point I’ll stop
00:06:02.400 getting hit." No, you just get a little
00:06:05.520 bit better at taking those punches. And
00:06:07.520 so co again initially like it was
00:06:09.919 devastating. And we just had to trust
00:06:12.240 God that you gave us this idea, you gave
00:06:14.639 us this passion. And if anything, like
00:06:17.600 you know, you think about co it
00:06:19.039 separated people. Our product, it brings
00:06:22.160 people together. When you wear a big hat
00:06:24.240 and you walk around with it, you’re
00:06:26.479 engaging people with smiles. you’re
00:06:28.400 engaging with conversations which again
00:06:30.800 during that season we were all told stay
00:06:32.479 away from each other right so it was so
00:06:35.199 fun to watch people connect and even
00:06:37.520 opposing team fans connecting just
00:06:40.400 because of a big hat it brought smile it
00:06:42.400 brought dopamine it brought natural good
00:06:45.280 that you know we wanted to bring back
00:06:46.960 into the world so absolutely it’s just
00:06:49.280 been really cool to to watch that
00:06:50.720 passion
00:06:51.520 >> and you said you did a lot of other
00:06:53.120 things before that trying to get them
00:06:55.280 what would you say to entrepreneurs that
00:06:56.880 maybe they think you What? Should I just
00:06:58.560 keep going at it or they should just
00:07:01.599 keep praying? Maybe that’s not what
00:07:02.800 they’re supposed to do. What would you
00:07:04.080 give advice to them if they think, you
00:07:05.759 know what, I keep trying to make the
00:07:07.280 next thing. Man, you’re so lucky you
00:07:09.360 were able to find this. Do you feel it’s
00:07:11.199 luck or do you feel it’s both luck and
00:07:13.520 God? How would you tell people to
00:07:15.919 encourage them out there?
00:07:17.599 >> So, God obviously puts the passions in
00:07:20.080 our hearts and we have an idea for
00:07:22.160 something. It’s okay if that first idea
00:07:25.840 didn’t work or you have to tweak it or
00:07:28.080 it it leads you to something else. Um,
00:07:30.720 so again, we’ve run other businesses
00:07:32.400 before that, you know, we we knew
00:07:34.080 nothing about this industry before
00:07:35.680 getting into it. So, talk about getting
00:07:37.599 a PhD and not knowing what we’re doing.
00:07:40.639 Literally everything that happens, we
00:07:42.400 can only point to God and say, "Well,
00:07:43.840 God did that and God did that and God
00:07:45.440 did that because we’re not that good."
00:07:47.280 So to us, that’s where the peace really
00:07:49.680 comes in of being a business owner is
00:07:51.759 knowing that we’re just a steward of it.
00:07:53.280 We’re trying to be the best stewards we
00:07:54.800 can. God didn’t give up on us. So, you
00:07:57.280 know, we’re going to work hard and we’re
00:07:58.400 going to keep going. And again, if
00:07:59.840 you’re passionate about what you’re
00:08:01.280 doing, it helps you get through those
00:08:03.120 hard times. So, again, you got to lean
00:08:04.879 into the positive. You got to lean into
00:08:06.720 God. God put this on my heart to do this
00:08:09.440 and just go after it.
00:08:11.039 >> So, what’s one of your favorite fun
00:08:12.400 stories with having the hats? Do you
00:08:15.599 have a favorite fun story? I’m sure you
00:08:17.280 have a million of them. But do you have
00:08:19.280 like a little giddy story where you’re
00:08:21.360 like, I can’t believe I’m here. Like an
00:08:23.120 aha moment.
00:08:24.160 >> I feel like I literally live that daily.
00:08:26.639 But the one most recently, we were in
00:08:28.879 New York for Fanatics Fanfest. And it
00:08:31.599 was filled with celebrities, athletes,
00:08:34.399 influencers. And again, I’m not cool
00:08:36.080 enough to know who all these influencers
00:08:37.679 are nowadays, but my my kids
00:08:39.599 >> I don’t either.
00:08:40.719 >> My kids tell me like, "Oh, that was like
00:08:42.799 somebody super popular." But we had some
00:08:44.959 goals going into it of who we wanted to
00:08:46.480 get hats to and of course like there
00:08:48.560 were the big names and and one of the
00:08:50.640 the things that was happening was Tom
00:08:52.240 Brady was going to be there and so again
00:08:54.160 it was just a dream like man if we could
00:08:55.920 ever just get this hat close to Tom
00:08:58.000 Brady. Well again God opens this door.
00:09:01.360 He shows up on a podcast with Kevin Hart
00:09:04.720 shirtless while they’re cold plunging.
00:09:06.800 >> Oh my gosh.
00:09:07.440 >> And puts our hat on.
00:09:08.720 >> Oh that’s so awesome. So again, he’s
00:09:10.640 wearing this hat in front of thousands
00:09:12.880 of people. And again, you couldn’t you
00:09:16.000 couldn’t claim that. You couldn’t say
00:09:17.519 like that was us. Again, that was just
00:09:19.200 another moment where I looked at my
00:09:21.200 business partner and said, "There’s God
00:09:22.880 again.
00:09:23.279 >> There’s God."
00:09:24.160 >> So, you know, that that was again a fun
00:09:26.160 one where you can get somebody that’s at
00:09:27.839 that level to get excited about your
00:09:29.839 product because again, these people have
00:09:31.519 everything. But again, it brings them
00:09:33.200 joy. It brings them a smile.
00:09:34.720 >> It’s a conversation piece. It’s
00:09:36.080 something very, very unique.
00:09:37.760 >> That’s right.
00:09:38.320 >> Yeah. That’s great. and they actually
00:09:39.519 had to have him take it off uh because
00:09:42.240 they were trying to get images with him
00:09:44.000 without the hat on. So, um the fact that
00:09:46.560 he loved it that much and you know took
00:09:48.320 it took it with him was pretty special.
00:09:50.160 >> That’s fantastic. So, NFL, Major League
00:09:53.920 Baseball.
00:09:54.640 >> So, Major League Baseball we don’t have
00:09:56.480 yet, but we are chasing. Um we have NFL,
00:09:59.440 all 32 teams. We’ve got a plethora of
00:10:02.160 college teams. PGA Tour, UFC, I’m going
00:10:06.000 to forget a couple. We got Savannah
00:10:07.519 Bananas. Uh but yeah, the the licenses
00:10:10.480 that we have um you know, Olympics, that
00:10:13.040 that was a super special one as well.
00:10:14.959 Sure. To get to see the entire like
00:10:16.480 women’s gymnastics team wearing our
00:10:18.240 hats, like it just is is heartwarming
00:10:20.640 when you see an entire country being
00:10:22.959 represented with something that you had
00:10:24.560 a little idea for.
00:10:25.680 >> Oh, for sure. That’s so it’s so
00:10:28.399 mind-blowing, I’m sure. Especially if
00:10:30.480 you don’t see, I always talk about with
00:10:32.720 Tones and Bones with a nonprofit. I have
00:10:35.200 no idea what I’m doing. It’s like I’m a
00:10:37.040 business person. I’ve run the law firm.
00:10:38.720 I’ve done things business-wise. But when
00:10:41.040 it comes to a ministry, I have no idea.
00:10:44.000 Just because you love the Lord doesn’t
00:10:45.279 mean you know how to do a ministry. And
00:10:47.279 so, it’s interesting when God puts us in
00:10:49.600 these places where you kind of have to
00:10:50.959 walk on water and hold his hand and not
00:10:52.640 look down.
00:10:53.120 >> That’s right.
00:10:53.760 >> And I do you feel that that’s kind of
00:10:55.279 like what you went through with learning
00:10:56.959 all the ropes with this? will instill I
00:10:59.360 mean again every layer of growth
00:11:02.160 requires new skill sets and new layers
00:11:04.640 of faith where before when you look back
00:11:06.800 and go we used to get stressed out at a
00:11:09.519 certain level of payroll well payroll
00:11:11.680 gets bigger your team gets bigger you
00:11:13.440 have more people you’re taking care of
00:11:14.959 you have more you know staff that you
00:11:16.959 need to encourage and build up and have
00:11:18.880 leadership for so every layer again
00:11:21.920 prepares you for that next step I have
00:11:24.160 yet to find one where it’s like oh it’s
00:11:26.399 done we’re good No, absolutely. Megan
00:11:28.959 and I talk about that all the time with
00:11:30.720 people that as you advance, as you
00:11:33.360 increase what you’re doing, it’s it’s
00:11:36.000 the same problems. They’re just on a
00:11:38.079 larger scale. And you just never really
00:11:40.560 get to that point where you say, "Okay,
00:11:42.720 this is smooth sailing here." If you’re
00:11:44.560 not running your business, if you’re not
00:11:46.399 focusing on it daily and trying to build
00:11:49.040 it, then the opposite is going to
00:11:50.880 happen.
00:11:51.200 >> That’s right. Yeah. I mean, again, you
00:11:53.120 have to be your best cheerleader. you
00:11:55.120 have to be the best at everything that
00:11:57.120 you’re doing within that business
00:11:58.399 because yes, we have one of our core
00:12:00.399 values is act as owners. We want our
00:12:02.399 team to all act as owners. And again,
00:12:04.880 that’s hard because we’re we’re staying
00:12:06.959 up till late hours of the night. We’re
00:12:08.720 solving problems that most people don’t
00:12:10.320 know we’re trying to solve and yet
00:12:12.399 you’re still trying to keep the machine
00:12:13.760 going and innovation happening and you
00:12:16.000 know expansion. But yeah, it’s uh you
00:12:18.240 know when we say we wear many hats like
00:12:20.240 it it is true for every entrepreneur.
00:12:22.320 Other people probably think your life is
00:12:24.079 perfect now that you have this, right?
00:12:26.240 >> Yeah. They think, "Oh, you made it,
00:12:27.600 >> right? You made it. Now you don’t have
00:12:29.279 to grow. Now you don’t have to learn."
00:12:31.279 And you know, I think that’s part of the
00:12:32.639 reason why we did this podcast is we’re
00:12:34.959 just all the same people. You just get
00:12:37.680 different problems when you have and I
00:12:40.240 mean obviously there’s a lot of
00:12:41.279 blessings there as well. And it takes a
00:12:44.399 lot of work. You know, there’s these
00:12:46.000 people that are influencers that just
00:12:48.959 want to be like one hit wonders where
00:12:51.040 they’re just going to make a bunch of
00:12:52.079 money and they don’t have to do
00:12:53.680 anything. Would you say that you work
00:12:56.480 more now than you did before?
00:12:58.800 >> Oh, for sure. And and I would say even
00:13:01.040 the layers of uh support and
00:13:03.920 encouragement are highly valuable. Like
00:13:06.000 what voices are you putting back into
00:13:08.320 your life? Because we get beat up all
00:13:10.959 the time. We get negativity. you get if
00:13:13.040 you’re doing something right, you have
00:13:14.720 competitors coming after you. You have
00:13:17.040 people you thought were friends turning
00:13:18.800 on you. So, it it’s that nature of you
00:13:21.680 will get attacked. You will have people
00:13:23.839 that don’t believe in you. I mean, even
00:13:25.200 to this day, I get people that tell me
00:13:26.800 and they I don’t know if they think it’s
00:13:28.160 a compliment, but they’ll go, "Oh, I
00:13:30.160 never thought that stupid thing would
00:13:31.440 actually like work out." And it’s like,
00:13:32.800 "Thank you." You know, is that a
00:13:34.560 compliment? Um but but again, like you
00:13:38.000 have to know your tribe. You have to
00:13:39.760 know your what you believe in. and to
00:13:42.800 get th that positivity back in your
00:13:44.639 life. So, for example, we our
00:13:46.480 headquarters is actually at one of the
00:13:47.920 universities here, Grand Canyon
00:13:49.200 University, and it’s filled with other
00:13:51.040 entrepreneurs that are trying to start
00:13:52.800 up their businesses. And what’s really
00:13:54.880 cool is we’ve been able to lend support
00:13:57.680 and encouragement where places they get
00:13:59.600 stuck because it’s lonely when you’re
00:14:02.079 starting an Etsy shop or whatever the
00:14:04.240 scale is in your home. You’re you’re
00:14:07.120 motivation. You’re your own let’s get
00:14:09.279 back at it and go go at it. We’re able
00:14:11.199 to help each other in this ecosystem and
00:14:13.040 really provide encouragement because
00:14:15.040 we’re not attacking each other. We’re
00:14:16.560 not competitors and there’s just this
00:14:18.880 really cool sweet spot of having faith
00:14:21.360 within that community which is also
00:14:23.279 different but we’re also there to help
00:14:25.360 help all ships rise.
00:14:26.880 >> I love that because you’re giving back
00:14:28.160 at the same time.
00:14:30.000 >> I’m sure people don’t know that.
00:14:30.959 >> Yeah. I would imagine what you’re
00:14:32.320 talking about is the camaraderie with
00:14:33.839 other people who are in a similar
00:14:36.880 venture, a similar, you know, time in
00:14:38.959 their life where they’re trying to get
00:14:40.320 things off the ground. And yeah, there’s
00:14:42.320 there’s never a time that you will work
00:14:44.480 as hard as when you’re working for
00:14:46.079 yourself.
00:14:46.639 >> That’s right. Yeah. There’s no, you
00:14:48.880 know, clock that you get to stop at a
00:14:50.720 certain time. I mean trying to balance
00:14:52.800 family and entrepreneurialism like I’m
00:14:55.360 so blessed that my wife early on I mean
00:14:58.160 we literally we both graduated from
00:15:00.079 Grand Canyon University and shortly like
00:15:02.800 literally the week after she graduated
00:15:04.639 we opened our first business together so
00:15:06.560 we’ve always been entrepreneurial and I
00:15:09.360 don’t know how we would do it people
00:15:10.720 often ask like are you guys just insane
00:15:13.279 like what what do you you know
00:15:14.480 >> a quiznos
00:15:15.279 >> it was it was yeah the best to this day
00:15:18.639 uh the best sub sandwich shop sandwich.
00:15:21.360 I ask everybody what their almost
00:15:22.880 everybody what’s your favorite sandwich?
00:15:24.320 >> I mean the Italian like that was their
00:15:26.880 starter. You know, you couldn’t go
00:15:28.079 wrong. But that was the the easiest part
00:15:29.760 of my day was I didn’t have to plan my
00:15:31.519 meals. Like I knew what I was going to
00:15:32.959 have for lunch, for dinner. You
00:15:34.480 >> sick of sandwiches?
00:15:35.360 >> Never. Cuz they had salads. They had
00:15:37.040 soup.
00:15:37.600 >> Sandwiches either. They’re the perfect
00:15:38.880 food.
00:15:39.199 >> Yeah, it was amazing.
00:15:39.920 >> Is pizza. What does Jack say? Uh pizza
00:15:42.079 is an openf face sandwich.
00:15:43.519 >> Oh, there you go. Uh-huh. Yeah. Agree
00:15:45.519 wholeheartedly.
00:15:46.160 >> But I don’t. Jack goes it’s an openf
00:15:47.600 face sandwich. I see that it’s dough
00:15:50.079 >> if you folded it.
00:15:51.440 >> Yeah.
00:15:52.639 >> But having that support system though
00:15:54.480 and be able to have that understanding
00:15:56.399 of there’s seasons like I’m about to go
00:15:58.720 travel international. So I’m going to be
00:16:00.480 gone from the family for a week. Well,
00:16:02.480 guess what? Before that, we have to have
00:16:04.320 dedicated time of what are we doing with
00:16:06.240 the family? Are we pouring into it? Are
00:16:07.759 we going to the kids games? Are we doing
00:16:09.440 something extra so that when I’m gone, I
00:16:12.240 don’t feel like I’m gone. And so again,
00:16:14.320 you have to know how to balance that.
00:16:15.920 But being able to have that support
00:16:17.680 system that knows the highs and the lows
00:16:20.399 that can speak into it and and I would
00:16:22.480 say candidly your spouse if and if
00:16:25.360 you’re married if you’re not married
00:16:26.480 find a friend that can fill this role
00:16:28.800 but there’s people with outside
00:16:30.079 perspective that you need to have that
00:16:32.000 you need to hear sometimes going yeah
00:16:34.399 maybe I didn’t handle that conversation
00:16:35.839 right maybe I was a jerk when I was
00:16:37.759 talking to that
00:16:38.240 >> I have no idea what you’re talking about
00:16:40.320 that that that never happens in the
00:16:43.040 practice of law.
00:16:46.000 I agree with you and I feel very very
00:16:48.639 blessed as well to have a partner like
00:16:50.720 that that really keeps me focused uh you
00:16:55.040 know helps me when I’ve you know gone
00:16:58.560 astray when I shouldn’t have uh very
00:17:01.440 very strong partner and uh
00:17:04.160 >> well you have 20 things going on at once
00:17:06.319 or you have not that I don’t they’re
00:17:08.000 just different things and so when you’re
00:17:09.439 juggling the same things you can lose
00:17:10.959 focus and so many times he’ll say to me
00:17:13.359 what do you think about X Y and I’m
00:17:14.799 like, "I do X." And he’s like, "No,
00:17:16.720 because and he’ll argue with me for 15
00:17:19.039 minutes and then in the end he’ll call
00:17:20.079 me and be like, I did X and it was
00:17:21.919 perfect and I’m sorry."
00:17:25.119 >> But, you know, that’s where we just have
00:17:27.199 to and he supports me in different ways
00:17:29.039 and that’s where, you know, your wife is
00:17:30.880 supporting you and you guys have
00:17:33.200 positions and where you’re at and that’s
00:17:34.720 what God is giving each person the
00:17:36.799 skills to be able to be successful for
00:17:39.280 your family and for your business.
00:17:40.559 >> Yeah. I posted this on on Facebook uh a
00:17:43.120 couple of weeks ago and and it’s great
00:17:46.000 words to live by. Most women want a man
00:17:48.559 who’s already successful. A strong woman
00:17:51.120 will be part of his struggle, survive
00:17:53.039 it, succeed together, and build an
00:17:55.200 empire.
00:17:56.320 >> And I think that’s that’s the women that
00:17:58.160 we’re talking about, our wives. At least
00:17:59.760 I feel so. And it certainly sounds like
00:18:01.360 you do as well.
00:18:02.000 >> Oh, that’s right. Yeah. No, I mean again
00:18:03.600 we go on, you know, walks daily and in
00:18:06.080 the afternoon and it’s kind of just that
00:18:07.760 time to uh vent, but you know, challenge
00:18:11.280 each other, support, hey, what are we
00:18:12.640 going what’s going on in our lives, you
00:18:14.240 know, and again, you have to be
00:18:16.160 proactive. I think that’s another like
00:18:17.760 secret um thing that a lot of people
00:18:19.679 think they’re proactive about certain
00:18:21.760 things, but life just happens. And
00:18:24.400 again, when you look at your day, it
00:18:26.559 flies by every day. And then we look
00:18:28.640 back and go, "Oh my gosh, can you
00:18:29.840 believe we’re in this month already?"
00:18:31.520 Christmas happens every year on December
00:18:33.360 25th, like crazy. But if you’re not
00:18:35.440 intentional about that year, and that’s
00:18:37.039 why a lot of people when they do goal
00:18:38.400 setting, they’ll do it around New Year’s
00:18:40.080 resolutions, things like that. I
00:18:41.760 actually do it on my birthday. So again,
00:18:43.679 if I’m given a new year by God, I want
00:18:46.080 to look back and go, "All right, what
00:18:47.440 what am I going to accomplish this year?
00:18:48.880 What do I want my faith to accomplish?
00:18:50.720 What do I want my family to accomplish?"
00:18:52.480 And it it is kind of really hysterical
00:18:54.559 when I look back on my 21-year-old self
00:18:57.520 to see what goals he had versus where
00:19:00.400 we’re at now. But again, that’s the
00:19:02.559 perspective that, you know, you look
00:19:04.240 back and and that I think is where a lot
00:19:06.400 of the faith and trust of of looking
00:19:08.799 back and going, look what God did there
00:19:11.039 and we went through a tough season
00:19:12.559 during that time of life and look what
00:19:14.000 God did there. So again, it’s it’s
00:19:16.240 remembering the past in the faithfulness
00:19:18.240 of what God has brought you through to
00:19:20.320 know that even in the midst of I mean
00:19:22.400 right now I I feel like my phone is just
00:19:24.640 getting blown up with people having just
00:19:26.400 struggle after struggle after struggle
00:19:28.799 and there’s something going on you know
00:19:31.520 again whether it’s in our nation whether
00:19:33.200 it’s in our faith but God is going to do
00:19:35.520 something God is doing something and so
00:19:38.400 um being able to rely on that faith and
00:19:40.799 have that peace I don’t know how people
00:19:42.960 without faith do it and And even in
00:19:45.360 entrepreneurials, like I’m a steward of
00:19:48.000 God’s business that he’s entrusted me
00:19:49.840 to. That takes a layer of pressure off
00:19:52.160 of me
00:19:53.200 >> because it’s his business. Like yes, I’m
00:19:55.600 working hard. I’m I’m trying my best to
00:19:57.360 provide for my family and for the people
00:19:58.960 that work for us, but at the end of the
00:20:00.960 day, I I have to trust God and go,
00:20:03.679 "Okay, God, this is hard." Um, but
00:20:06.640 you’re going to get us through it.
00:20:08.720 >> Yeah. And I I love what you’re talking
00:20:10.480 about about the uh the nightly walks
00:20:12.400 with your wife. Those are so important
00:20:14.720 for a an an entrepreneurial couple,
00:20:18.160 really any couple to connect on a deep
00:20:21.520 basis daily like that. And Megan and I
00:20:24.400 just recently said, you know what, we
00:20:26.400 need to start floating in the pool
00:20:27.679 daily. It’s like we did that over the
00:20:29.600 weekend. We’re like, this is such a
00:20:31.280 wonderful time for us where we’re
00:20:33.280 talking. We’re just spending time
00:20:34.720 together and just focusing and then you
00:20:37.360 just never know where the conversation
00:20:38.640 is going to take you. And it’s really,
00:20:40.240 really important for any couple.
00:20:41.600 >> That’s right. Right. So, I love that you
00:20:42.799 guys do that.
00:20:43.520 >> Yeah. No, it’s uh again, you have to be
00:20:46.320 able to take care of your four walls,
00:20:48.480 you know, first. Otherwise, everything
00:20:50.880 else outside of it, it’s easy to to lose
00:20:53.039 track of it. But there’s been seasons
00:20:54.559 where, you know, I’ve had to come home
00:20:56.640 and pull my kids and and wife in and
00:20:59.360 apologize and say, you know, dad’s I’ve
00:21:01.760 been I’ve been too busy. I’ve been, you
00:21:03.760 know, um I haven’t I haven’t prioritized
00:21:05.679 this. like you know again trying to do
00:21:07.840 there was a time where literally I was
00:21:09.679 in min full-time ministry up until a
00:21:11.840 month ago doing two full-time jobs and
00:21:15.200 that’s hard you know but again I’m
00:21:16.799 trying to sacrifice like I don’t want my
00:21:19.120 family feeling it I don’t want the
00:21:20.640 ministry to obviously feel it or the
00:21:22.400 business so you know what takes the hit
00:21:24.559 is myself personal health my personal
00:21:27.919 you know instead of going to the gym
00:21:29.679 first thing in the morning I’m now
00:21:31.280 checking another two hours of emails
00:21:33.200 that weren’t piling up in the inbox
00:21:35.120 before the day started. So, so it it is
00:21:37.679 hard because uh as an entrepreneur,
00:21:39.840 you’re it like the buck stops with you.
00:21:42.480 Can’t just like, well, my day is over,
00:21:44.240 so that that’s done.
00:21:46.080 >> Do you find that there are times and
00:21:49.120 places that that you and your wife have
00:21:51.600 drawn a line and said, "Okay, this this
00:21:54.159 is where it does stop. We have to take
00:21:56.640 this time." You mentioned the walks and
00:21:58.000 I don’t know if that’s the time, but I
00:21:59.840 know that Megan and I did that with our
00:22:02.240 law firm years ago where I could
00:22:05.600 literally practice and and work on my
00:22:08.080 cases probably around the clock if if I
00:22:11.280 wanted to and had the energy, but that’s
00:22:13.919 not something that is fulfilling for our
00:22:17.360 lives. It’s not something that that we
00:22:19.760 believe God wants us to do. you know, so
00:22:21.200 we made a decision years ago, weekends,
00:22:24.799 nights, those are for the family. And
00:22:27.120 so, is there anything like that? Any
00:22:28.720 boundaries that you have where you
00:22:30.240 actually have gotten to that point where
00:22:31.679 you say, "Okay, this is where we’re
00:22:34.000 cutting it off for just a a time."
00:22:36.240 >> Yeah. And I would say it’s still a work
00:22:38.159 in in progress, right? Like um even with
00:22:40.799 my business partner and I, we had to
00:22:42.400 figure out like do we stop texting at a
00:22:45.360 certain time of night because again
00:22:47.360 there we’re always on and it could even
00:22:49.679 just be something as simple as a casual
00:22:52.480 comment or a casual conversation,
00:22:54.320 nothing even workrelated, but it still
00:22:56.480 triggers that work dynamic. And so being
00:22:59.200 able to put those guardrails in place
00:23:00.960 like you you’ve got to set what’s you
00:23:03.120 know good for your family to say, "Hey,
00:23:04.559 when I’m home, I’m home. when I’m at
00:23:07.039 working, you guys get 150% of
00:23:09.600 everything. Um, but it is really hard
00:23:11.600 and and again to honor a Sabbath of can
00:23:15.120 I go a full day and not do work like
00:23:18.880 that’s hard.
00:23:19.840 >> Yeah. Well, and and admittedly, these
00:23:22.400 are our goals. We’ve made those rules.
00:23:25.440 Sticking to it all together.
00:23:27.600 >> Jack, he follows the Sabbath every week.
00:23:29.520 He’s so faithful with that. And every
00:23:31.280 Friday, he’s like, "Mom, no, we can’t do
00:23:32.960 that." He’s been so good at that. And
00:23:35.760 it’s just w with the law firm and then
00:23:38.799 with Tones and Bones and the podcast. I
00:23:41.520 said, "My calendar is like a rainbow.
00:23:42.960 I’ve got personal. I got the podcast
00:23:45.200 calendar color. I got Tones and Bones
00:23:46.960 color. I got the law firm." And then for
00:23:48.880 me, I’m up at 3:00 a.m. scrolling ideas.
00:23:52.000 Well, we could do this for Tones and
00:23:53.280 Bones. Oh, we could do this for the
00:23:55.280 podcast. Oh, we could advertise for this
00:23:57.200 for the law firm. And I’m constantly
00:23:59.440 going and going and going. And I get to
00:24:01.360 the point where, you know, I start not
00:24:03.200 feeling good or I have a headache or I’m
00:24:04.720 just stressed out. And Ken will then be
00:24:07.760 like, "You’re done. You just need to
00:24:09.520 go." Even Gordon, I don’t know if you
00:24:11.279 know Gordon Wicker, and he’ll be like,
00:24:13.679 "Megan,"
00:24:14.559 >> cuz I went I I think we were at Tones
00:24:16.159 and Bones a few weeks ago, and he goes,
00:24:17.840 "You look so tired." I said, "Well, thi
00:24:20.559 this concert, this concert, and then no,
00:24:22.640 and my phone was going off till 11:00 at
00:24:24.480 night about this and this and this and
00:24:25.840 this." He’s like, "No." He’s like, "I
00:24:29.039 don’t know if Ken tells you this, but
00:24:30.240 you need to just from even 7:00 p.m. to
00:24:32.480 9:00 p.m., you need to just say no
00:24:34.880 texting, but I’ve just I’ve always got
00:24:37.279 so many things going on where I feel
00:24:39.840 like I feel like the if I drop a ball,
00:24:43.679 then it’s an opportunity that I’m
00:24:45.200 missing. But I need to just trust God
00:24:47.600 that if that’s an opportunity that I’m
00:24:49.520 and and I don’t even think an
00:24:50.799 opportunity for me. I feel like I’m
00:24:52.240 always going, we have a responsibility
00:24:54.400 to the people that we’ve told that we
00:24:56.559 have responsibilities for, the people
00:24:58.080 that work for us at the law firm, for
00:25:00.000 our family, for the community, for
00:25:02.559 everything that we have going on. I just
00:25:04.960 feel like every second if I have a
00:25:06.799 minute to think about something with one
00:25:08.640 of our businesses, I should be doing
00:25:10.720 that. And I think it just can get
00:25:14.480 overwhelming.
00:25:15.440 >> A few years back, one of the best things
00:25:17.039 my wife and I ever did was go through
00:25:18.880 the exercise of a life plan. And one of
00:25:21.039 the key things that it had in there was
00:25:22.880 a replenishment cycle. And so it gave
00:25:25.279 her an opportunity to literally write
00:25:27.120 down what what fuels you up. What are
00:25:29.840 the things that you actually need to do
00:25:32.080 to get you back to like the best version
00:25:34.080 of yourself? Because again, I could feel
00:25:36.320 guilty going, I’ve got a bunch of emails
00:25:38.720 that just came in my inbox, or could I
00:25:41.360 go to the driving range and hit golf
00:25:42.720 balls? Like that’s going to actually
00:25:44.159 like help me maybe think of some things
00:25:46.159 that I wasn’t thinking of or or
00:25:47.919 whatever. And so it’s easy to like put
00:25:50.240 those things aside and then you’re just
00:25:52.640 stuck in the work mode which again is
00:25:54.880 that perpetual cycle of stress and
00:25:57.600 they’re always going to be there like I
00:25:59.440 have yet to wake up to an inbox that’s
00:26:01.440 empty yet. Praise the Lord. But I I have
00:26:05.120 to go carve out that stuff. So it can
00:26:06.799 feel guilty going I’m going to go do
00:26:08.799 this. And again, for her, it’s kind of
00:26:10.480 ironic because in the past, it could be
00:26:12.400 seen as almost a conflict between
00:26:14.480 couples where if I came home and I would
00:26:17.679 see Netflix had been watched for like
00:26:20.320 two episodes or something, I may
00:26:22.400 flippingly go like, "Oh, well, what’s
00:26:24.400 new with uh, you know, The Amazing Race
00:26:26.640 or something?" Well, that’s her
00:26:28.000 replenishment cycle. So I I have to give
00:26:30.320 her the freedom of this is what she
00:26:33.120 needs in order for when the kids are
00:26:35.200 home or when we’re doing our business
00:26:36.799 that she is filled up. And in the same
00:26:39.279 token, she knows that I got to go out
00:26:40.799 and go hit some golf balls to get myself
00:26:43.440 back to where I’m at.
00:26:44.159 >> Cuz then you can’t give 100% cuz you’re
00:26:46.240 so you’re giving everybody only 20% of
00:26:49.120 you because you don’t you’re not filled
00:26:51.279 up. And if the time you’re trying to
00:26:53.039 fill up is because you’re not feeling
00:26:54.480 good, that’s not really filling yourself
00:26:56.720 up. you’re just stressed and you’re just
00:26:58.720 trying to be like please like for me cuz
00:27:01.120 I’m you know 52 and I have hormone
00:27:03.200 issues and you know I’m that age where
00:27:05.279 it’s just like please and now Skyla’s
00:27:07.520 home homeschooling with ASU and it’s mom
00:27:10.880 I’m already done with my work can we do
00:27:12.320 15 things and then I end up feeling
00:27:14.080 guilty because I’m like okay let’s just
00:27:17.039 and and where does that guilt come from?
00:27:18.799 I think CCB was talking about that this
00:27:20.880 weekend with control
00:27:22.559 >> right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the illusion
00:27:24.240 of control for business owners, it’s
00:27:26.799 hard because we’re the ones responsible
00:27:29.200 at the end of the day.
00:27:30.720 >> We get the good, we get the bad, and
00:27:33.200 again, it’s it’s on us to make things
00:27:35.520 happen. Now, again, we rely on God. We
00:27:37.520 know that we’re giving him the glory. We
00:27:39.120 know that he’s the one that’s making it
00:27:40.480 all happen. But that’s the the struggle
00:27:43.600 of the entrepreneur is going, "Well, I
00:27:46.159 have the burden. I have to
00:27:47.919 >> You still feel all of that on your
00:27:49.360 shoulder."
00:27:50.080 >> It’s also hard, too, with the nonprofit.
00:27:52.559 I’ve had people come up to me and go,
00:27:54.000 "You know what? It irritates me when I
00:27:56.960 see you asking for people to help with
00:27:58.880 the nonprofit. Even though we pay for
00:28:00.399 the whole building, 6,500 square feet,
00:28:02.320 we pay for it. Irritates me that I see
00:28:04.480 you going on vacation on your social
00:28:06.240 media. Every dollar you have should be
00:28:08.960 going to that nonprofit." And I think,
00:28:11.440 "Well, I’m sorry. Now I I should I hide
00:28:13.600 the fact that I go on vacation? I’m not
00:28:15.520 allowed to go on vacation." And that’s
00:28:17.760 the hard part with doing ministry is
00:28:22.399 people watching that aspect which they
00:28:24.399 have no idea how much it’s costing us to
00:28:26.080 support everything that we’re doing that
00:28:27.840 I do need that vacation I do need that
00:28:30.240 break and that’s being judged as well
00:28:32.880 >> how do you deal with that
00:28:33.840 >> I I also think you cannot discount
00:28:37.520 what happens with your ability to be
00:28:39.760 creative when you’re doing the relaxing
00:28:41.679 things when you’re on vacation when
00:28:43.279 you’re on the the driving range and
00:28:45.520 allowing your mind to just flow and
00:28:48.159 relax and that’s when a lot of ideas
00:28:50.320 will hit
00:28:51.520 And so you can’t discount that because
00:28:53.200 when you’re focused on your emails, when
00:28:54.720 you’re focused on getting this task done
00:28:56.480 and that task done, you often times
00:28:59.120 don’t have the creativity ability to
00:29:01.760 say, "Well, how about if I do this for
00:29:03.679 the business?"
00:29:04.399 >> But when you come back from vacation,
00:29:05.840 how many times do business owners go,
00:29:07.520 "Ah, I’m relaxed." And then it’s slammed
00:29:09.360 with 20 things that are broken.
00:29:11.440 >> I mean, it’s it’s true. You’re like, "I
00:29:14.159 guess I that’s all wasted, that
00:29:16.240 relaxation because now I’m with 20
00:29:18.640 different issues." and they look to you
00:29:20.480 to make the decision about it. Right.
00:29:22.159 >> Right. Well, and right or wrong, again,
00:29:24.080 this is something that I I’m challenged
00:29:26.080 in when I go on vacation. I actually
00:29:28.080 find it more relaxing to get up before
00:29:31.039 the family does, knock out an hour of
00:29:33.520 work so that when I get back, I don’t
00:29:36.640 have that buildup of a million things I
00:29:39.760 got to take care of. Now, again, it’s
00:29:41.200 hard because then you don’t want to
00:29:42.399 overstep and like that you’re working
00:29:44.159 while you’re on vacation, but I
00:29:45.840 struggle. It’s hard for me to like shut
00:29:47.600 it, shut it. He does that. But one time
00:29:50.159 it was funny. We were going to we were
00:29:52.000 going to Canada or we were going
00:29:53.600 somewhere and I went to the law firm and
00:29:55.039 I said, "Listen, we are literally going
00:29:57.039 on this vacation and unless it’s an
00:29:58.960 emergency, you are not getting a hold of
00:30:00.880 Ken. You can come to me." Because what
00:30:02.960 happens with Ken is once he goes down
00:30:04.960 that road, that’s all he can think about
00:30:07.039 all day long. He’s not like that
00:30:08.720 anymore. But that vacation, he looked at
00:30:12.320 me and he’s like, "You’re working." cuz
00:30:14.880 I started getting all these messages
00:30:16.320 from people that got in accidents and
00:30:17.840 needed this and needed that and he’s
00:30:19.120 like taking pictures of me and sending
00:30:20.799 it to the office cuz he’s like look it
00:30:22.320 it’s 8 at night and we’re at dinner and
00:30:24.159 we’re supposed to be relaxing and Megan
00:30:25.840 is Megan is working. But
00:30:28.320 >> I do want to highlight though what you
00:30:29.600 you just touched on because I think it
00:30:31.279 is important. You do get attacked by
00:30:34.000 people that you wouldn’t assume that
00:30:35.840 you’re going to be attacked by. Um and
00:30:37.760 and again the hard thing is you try to
00:30:40.320 rationalize the irrational. It’s easier
00:30:43.520 when it’s people that don’t have similar
00:30:46.159 beliefs or similar faith. There’s a lot
00:30:49.200 of greed inside the church. There is.
00:30:52.080 And that’s the hardest to swallow
00:30:54.240 because again, we should be the biggest
00:30:56.480 champions of each other. We should be
00:30:58.559 out there going, "Hey, if anybody should
00:31:01.039 be crushing it in business, it should be
00:31:03.360 believers. We should be supporting each
00:31:05.120 other. There’s enough of the world
00:31:07.039 trying to tear us down, trying to tear
00:31:09.039 down the values, the beliefs, the it
00:31:11.840 always baffles me. And again, that’s
00:31:13.520 where you have to again know who your
00:31:15.600 inner circle is. Know who the voices are
00:31:17.760 that are speaking truth in your life. It
00:31:19.760 is healthy to have people that will
00:31:21.679 challenge you, that will call you out
00:31:23.360 when you need to,
00:31:24.720 >> but not tear you down. And that’s that’s
00:31:26.960 okay to have those boundaries, too, to
00:31:28.559 go, we can be friendly,
00:31:30.480 >> but I’m I don’t need to be their friend.
00:31:32.559 And I think that’s hard sometimes for us
00:31:34.320 to wrestle, but to it’s actually really
00:31:36.080 freeing to say it to just be like,
00:31:37.919 "Yes." And I to tell our kids the same
00:31:39.760 thing. You can be be friendly to
00:31:41.440 everybody, but you have absolutely zero
00:31:43.840 responsibility to be a friend. And
00:31:46.080 that’s what I’m learning with I didn’t
00:31:47.919 know. I thought, "Oh, they’re a godly
00:31:49.360 person. Of course, we’ll bring them in."
00:31:51.200 >> Then I see mooching happening and then I
00:31:53.360 see this and then I see like me building
00:31:55.519 a boundary going, "This isn’t what it
00:31:57.519 and then that Christian never talking to
00:31:59.279 you again because you put up a boundary
00:32:01.440 or you know when we had the nonprofit
00:32:03.360 starting I had females that I thought
00:32:05.039 were our friends going well you don’t
00:32:07.360 know the Bible as much as us why do you
00:32:09.360 get to do that and I’m like whoa what I
00:32:11.840 actually I don’t know like I don’t think
00:32:14.320 of myself so highly I God opened this up
00:32:17.360 to us and this is what God wanted us to
00:32:19.200 do and I’m doing it why are you well
00:32:22.559 you’re just the disco ball that is all
00:32:24.559 sparkly that knows nothing that’s going
00:32:26.320 to and it’s Like, wait a minute. These
00:32:28.720 are Christian women who you see every
00:32:31.360 day that are like, "We’re so amazing,
00:32:33.120 these big groups of women, and you see
00:32:34.960 all the" And I’m like, "But you’re not
00:32:37.519 that nice."
00:32:38.640 >> Yeah. You mentioned greed. There’s a lot
00:32:40.640 of greed. There’s there’s a lot of
00:32:42.240 jealousy, too. And those two things are
00:32:44.000 are
00:32:45.200 >> awful for believers to bring to other
00:32:48.080 believers.
00:32:48.799 >> That’s right.
00:32:49.279 >> I I wholeheartedly agree with you about
00:32:51.279 how we should be encouraging each other.
00:32:52.960 >> Yeah. And it does make me personally
00:32:55.120 pause cuz like on the inagram I don’t
00:32:58.240 know if you guys follow personality
00:32:59.840 traits or anything like that but you
00:33:01.760 know every business could focus on like
00:33:03.360 a disc or something but there is value
00:33:05.360 to understanding personalities and how
00:33:07.840 you interact with one each other. So I’m
00:33:09.679 an eight which again you can be a
00:33:11.679 healthy eight or I can be an eight-hole.
00:33:14.240 I don’t know if you’d have to bleep that
00:33:15.519 out on your podcast but I can be a good
00:33:18.399 version of myself or not. And it’s easy
00:33:20.559 sometimes if I see something that’s
00:33:22.240 black and white for me to go that’s
00:33:24.080 wrong.
00:33:25.120 >> I’ve had to learn to pause in how I
00:33:27.600 respond to people where I know what it’s
00:33:30.000 like to be the recipient of that. And so
00:33:32.320 at some point it’s like is is it really
00:33:34.399 valuable for me to step in or are there
00:33:37.279 some things where I’m not like being
00:33:39.760 complacent or you know being a promoter
00:33:42.320 of something but it’s also maybe not
00:33:44.799 worth it in the long run for me to
00:33:47.440 engage in XYZ. And that’s hard, you
00:33:49.760 know, but again, where there’s battles,
00:33:51.679 I’ll go to battle and you’ll you want me
00:33:53.919 on your side.
00:33:54.960 >> An eight. What which one is that?
00:33:57.120 >> So driver. Um
00:33:58.720 >> I know I’m the driver or like I’m
00:34:01.919 >> driver
00:34:03.840 inclusive.
00:34:06.159 I just the type I can’t remember. I’ve
00:34:08.000 taken all the tests, but I’m this person
00:34:10.320 where it has to make sense. So like
00:34:12.960 given a situation, we had someone where
00:34:14.800 they didn’t like us, right? Can you make
00:34:17.119 this better with them? Of course,
00:34:18.560 they’re not in my inner circle. It means
00:34:21.119 of course I can make it better. When
00:34:22.719 would you like to meet up? And then them
00:34:24.960 not wanting to make it better because
00:34:26.239 they have personal issues. For me, it
00:34:28.800 doesn’t make sense. I’m one of these
00:34:30.480 people that are logical going, you be an
00:34:33.440 adult, I’ll be an adult. Let’s just say
00:34:36.320 we agree to disagree and be cordial for
00:34:38.719 the kingdom and let’s move on. I don’t
00:34:41.359 understand where people are so emotional
00:34:43.359 in that sense where they’d rather not
00:34:45.520 move forward for the kingdom or not move
00:34:47.679 forward for the sake of just moving
00:34:50.079 forward where my personality is like of
00:34:53.679 course let’s just move forward and we
00:34:56.159 can just have our own thoughts of
00:34:57.920 things. I am annoyed at flakiness. I’m
00:35:02.160 annoyed at because we’re all trying to
00:35:04.960 do something whether it’s be a better
00:35:07.599 person or be a good mom or be a better
00:35:09.599 business person or whatever and I just
00:35:12.560 can’t stand incompetent behavior. It
00:35:16.000 annoys me and I don’t want to be
00:35:17.599 >> say what you mean and mean what you say,
00:35:19.119 >> right? Let it be yeses. You know,
00:35:21.760 there’s plenty of times where I agree to
00:35:23.200 do something that I don’t want to do and
00:35:24.800 I’m 52 years old and I’m like, why did I
00:35:27.119 agree to do that?
00:35:28.160 >> But I still have to go and I still have
00:35:29.839 to do it. you still have to show up,
00:35:32.079 right?
00:35:32.480 >> You know, one of the the hard things to
00:35:34.640 reconcile is we all have the same
00:35:36.720 playbook with faith and or at least a a
00:35:39.680 a similar playbook when it comes to
00:35:42.000 faith.
00:35:42.800 >> And when you see people acting
00:35:45.359 differently of going, hey, just at the
00:35:47.520 baseline, like we all have a certain
00:35:50.400 expectation of of how we should be
00:35:53.280 engaging with each other or how we what
00:35:55.359 we say we do, we do or you know, are we
00:35:57.680 going to hold our integrity in this
00:35:59.119 moment? um or even how we have hard
00:36:01.119 conversations. Like there’s a great
00:36:03.280 playbook in the Bible on how we do a lot
00:36:05.440 of these things and it does translate
00:36:07.440 into business which is interesting to
00:36:10.320 see how refreshing it actually is for
00:36:12.400 people because it’s not common and it’s
00:36:14.960 not the standard for people to be
00:36:16.880 treated like that. Like I, you know,
00:36:19.040 again, go back to my early days with the
00:36:20.800 business. I wanted everybody to take my
00:36:22.720 phone call about a big silly hat that
00:36:24.720 they had no idea that they needed in
00:36:26.240 their industry. To this day, I will take
00:36:28.560 phone call after phone call or meeting
00:36:30.240 after meeting on things that people go,
00:36:32.560 "Is that really worth your time? Is that
00:36:34.720 value ad for you?" But again, like
00:36:36.560 you’re never at a level where you should
00:36:38.400 not be ever reaching out and trying to
00:36:40.160 help other people or trying to encourage
00:36:41.839 them because again, at the end of the
00:36:43.680 day, that’s all we’re trying to do is
00:36:45.280 just help each other. And again, have
00:36:47.280 have everybody be encouraged because
00:36:48.960 there’s so much negativity out there
00:36:50.400 trying to take everybody away. And we
00:36:52.640 were talking before we started recording
00:36:54.720 this uh with your business, you guys are
00:36:58.079 also pouring into some charitable work
00:37:00.400 as well. Why don’t you talk about that
00:37:01.680 for a minute?
00:37:02.400 >> Yeah, I mean, you know, the the hats at
00:37:04.400 different events are fun and in sporting
00:37:06.320 events when we see it on the jumbo trial
00:37:07.839 and like that’s great, but the real
00:37:09.839 heartwarming stuff happens when we’re at
00:37:12.079 these events for charities. And you
00:37:14.160 know, some of the really cool things
00:37:15.359 we’ve been part of is like Make a Wish
00:37:17.119 and being able to have these hats go to
00:37:19.200 kids that are struggling, literally
00:37:21.359 fighting for their life puts it in
00:37:23.520 perspective. And again, a lot of them
00:37:25.200 have lost their hair due to the
00:37:26.560 treatments and they put the hat on
00:37:28.400 >> it. Again, the parents are like the
00:37:30.160 smiles that these kids have had like
00:37:32.000 they’re they’re battling every day. And
00:37:33.760 to have a moment where they get to just
00:37:35.440 be a kid, have fun, get to see it. um
00:37:38.000 time and time again at different charity
00:37:39.680 events, we’ve seen the hats raise
00:37:41.280 thousands of dollars for those charities
00:37:43.359 uh just because it is a cool piece for
00:37:45.040 that donor to have or feel special about
00:37:47.520 that cause. But yeah, time and time
00:37:49.680 again again that’s that’s the stuff
00:37:51.200 that’s rewarding and getting to see our
00:37:53.119 hats in places with charities doing some
00:37:56.240 amazing things and it resets your kind
00:37:58.800 of perspective on h maybe it wasn’t that
00:38:01.440 really hard of a week if I knew what
00:38:03.280 those parents are going through or what
00:38:04.800 those kids are going through. So, it
00:38:07.520 it’s it’s great therapy for us as well.
00:38:09.680 >> I love that. I feel that way with Tones
00:38:11.280 and Bones. You know, we’re stressed out
00:38:12.720 or you know, this is going on, that’s
00:38:14.560 going on, and you know, Gabe, our other
00:38:17.200 Gabe who works for us, he has Ignite
00:38:18.880 Fire and he’ll be like, "Oh, we’re
00:38:20.000 having an a night fire at Tones and
00:38:21.440 Bones and can you guys work the snack
00:38:23.599 bar because my girlfriend, whatever."
00:38:25.040 And we’re like, "Of course." You know,
00:38:27.119 attorney by day, snack bar by night. And
00:38:30.000 so we go over and we do the snack bar
00:38:33.119 and Ken and I sit together and we see
00:38:35.520 everybody worshiping and it’s like it
00:38:38.560 doesn’t matter whatever else is going
00:38:41.440 on.
00:38:43.040 They all we get to provide a space where
00:38:45.839 these people get to come and worship the
00:38:48.240 Lord. And I remember one night this guy
00:38:50.880 came in with a friend and he goes I see
00:38:53.280 him he goes it’s going to be okay. We
00:38:54.720 can sit here and worship the Lord
00:38:56.079 together. and he had his arm around him
00:38:58.480 and he was going through something and
00:39:00.640 it just it made everything worth it. It
00:39:03.520 made everything worth it because at the
00:39:04.880 end of the day,
00:39:07.119 >> it matters what Jesus does in
00:39:08.880 everybody’s lives, you know, and to me
00:39:11.599 that like for you seeing those kids
00:39:13.680 wearing those hats and smiling, that’s
00:39:16.000 the heart of what I feel like and I’m
00:39:19.119 sure you too. Whereas all this busyiness
00:39:21.599 and all this work at the end of the day,
00:39:24.320 if Jesus is the one who matters most and
00:39:26.400 you seeing that through what you’re
00:39:27.920 doing, it makes everything come full
00:39:30.800 circle.
00:39:31.359 >> Yeah. And I would agree. One of the
00:39:33.119 hardest parts for me is to actually um
00:39:35.839 cuz again as the you know chief
00:39:38.400 everything officer you’re you’re going
00:39:40.640 for what’s next? What’s next? What’s
00:39:42.160 next? There’s been many times where and
00:39:44.560 this is not a natural muscle group for
00:39:46.560 me to exercise but our team’s gotten
00:39:48.960 better at going can we just pause for a
00:39:50.960 second? Can we look around? So again if
00:39:53.119 we’re we’re going to an event and we
00:39:55.200 like guys can we just pause like how
00:39:57.760 crazy is this right now? Look look what
00:40:00.240 the what God has done. Look at the doors
00:40:02.400 he’s open. Like, and it’s okay to
00:40:04.880 celebrate. You got to celebrate. You got
00:40:06.400 to have some wins. You got to you got to
00:40:08.079 fuel that fire on the positive side
00:40:10.000 because again, you could look around and
00:40:11.200 go, "Man, we missed this opportunity. We
00:40:13.040 forgot about that. We could have done
00:40:14.240 this." But just pause and go like the
00:40:17.760 verse where where he says, you know, I
00:40:19.200 lead, you know, he leads me by still
00:40:20.640 waters. He lays me down. It doesn’t say
00:40:22.800 like he asked me to go by still waters.
00:40:25.200 Like I God has to like literally force
00:40:28.320 me down and say, "Okay, stop." like lay
00:40:31.680 down. I don’t just naturally do that.
00:40:33.920 That’s not my personality type. So
00:40:35.920 again, like knowing those rhythms are
00:40:38.079 important and trying to be strategic
00:40:39.920 about it and make it, you know, part of
00:40:41.680 your natural life.
00:40:42.560 >> Absolutely. I love that. Well, what’s
00:40:44.480 the the future hold for Noggin Boss?
00:40:47.520 >> So, uh, you know, you talked about Major
00:40:49.280 League Baseball, new licenses, new
00:40:51.280 opportunities, international growth,
00:40:53.440 expansion. Um, you know, literally we’re
00:40:56.000 just scratching the surface and, um,
00:40:58.319 we’re excited about growing the team,
00:41:00.720 growing different partnerships within
00:41:02.319 the spaces, but sports is one whole
00:41:04.720 area, but even businesses, we’re getting
00:41:07.760 businesses that reach out because
00:41:09.200 they’re seeing what the hats do for
00:41:10.880 their side, and it is just an untapped
00:41:13.520 market. And so, we’re excited to explore
00:41:15.440 that. And again, just watching how
00:41:17.599 they’re using them in marketing. Again,
00:41:19.760 we’re watching innovation happen on
00:41:22.400 something that we didn’t even see maybe
00:41:24.079 new channels and new opportunities for.
00:41:26.000 >> Well, however we can help support you,
00:41:27.920 we are here and you let us know and we’d
00:41:30.640 love to support what you’re doing
00:41:32.079 because we think it’s great.
00:41:33.200 >> Well, thank you again. Keep doing what
00:41:35.440 you guys are doing. Keep uh you know,
00:41:37.760 lifting uh positive news and and giving
00:41:40.640 people hope and encouragement out there
00:41:42.079 because it’s needed now more than ever.
00:41:43.920 >> And so, Gabe, where’s my hat? Well, so
00:41:46.800 we have a saying that you use your
00:41:48.800 noggin and you be a boss. So we we have
00:41:52.319 created a custom one of one.
00:41:54.960 >> Look at that.
00:41:55.280 >> Look at that.
00:41:56.960 >> We love your logo, by the way. Super
00:41:59.440 fire.
00:42:00.240 >> Look at that. Look at that.
00:42:03.040 >> Is it even? Do I have it even?
00:42:04.640 >> Yeah.
00:42:05.040 >> Is my head crooked?
00:42:06.640 >> As the kids say, that’s tough.
00:42:08.800 >> I’m not allowed to use any of the words.
00:42:10.560 I get told it’s cringe. Whatever.
00:42:12.880 >> Oh my god. Yes, I get. I love it. How
00:42:15.680 cute is this? Yay. Thank you so much.
00:42:18.240 >> Thank you guys for having us.
00:42:19.359 >> So, now we have a game,
00:42:20.560 >> okay,
00:42:20.880 >> for you to play.
00:42:21.760 >> We call this the cross-examination of
00:42:25.200 And so, obviously, this is the
00:42:26.400 cross-examination of Gabe Cooper,
00:42:28.319 >> okay?
00:42:28.800 >> And so, what we’re going to do is we’re
00:42:31.280 going to ask you 20 questions. That’s
00:42:33.760 the cross-examination,
00:42:35.760 but this one’s a little bit different
00:42:37.200 because you’re going to be holding on to
00:42:40.480 some electrodes.
00:42:42.560 And as the questions move forward, the
00:42:45.359 shock value gets higher.
00:42:46.720 >> Wow. Okay.
00:42:48.560 >> Are we ready?
00:42:49.839 >> Are you ready, Gabe?
00:42:50.640 >> Let’s go. All right.
00:42:52.079 >> Coffee or tea?
00:42:53.200 >> Coffee.
00:42:54.160 >> Cats or dogs?
00:42:55.119 >> Dogs.
00:42:55.680 >> First celebrity crush?
00:42:57.440 >> Uh, oh my gosh. First celebrity crush.
00:43:01.599 Winnie. Uh, from the Wonder Years.
00:43:03.520 >> Favorite fast food restaurant?
00:43:05.280 >> Uh, In-N-Out.
00:43:06.800 >> If you could if you could only use one
00:43:09.440 emoji forever, which one? Uh, the winky
00:43:13.200 face.
00:43:13.920 >> Text or phone call?
00:43:15.200 >> Uh, text.
00:43:16.079 >> Who’s funnier, you or your best friend?
00:43:20.800 >> I’m a Louis. Um, sorry. What was the
00:43:23.440 question?
00:43:24.160 >> Who’s funnier, you or your best friend?
00:43:26.319 >> Oh, uh, me for sure.
00:43:28.000 >> Pineapple on pizza or yes or no?
00:43:29.920 >> No.
00:43:30.640 >> What’s the last show you binge watched?
00:43:33.359 >> Um,
00:43:34.400 >> your past can’t
00:43:35.200 >> Invasion.
00:43:36.640 >> If you had to sing one karaoke song
00:43:38.480 right now, what would it be?
00:43:39.680 >> Uh, Help. I don’t know. Is that a song?
00:43:42.079 >> Who’s your favorite superhero?
00:43:43.520 >> I’m done.
00:43:45.920 >> Are you done?
00:43:46.640 >> I’m done.
00:43:48.319 >> You got to 11.
00:43:50.720 >> Oh my gosh.
00:43:52.560 >> Awesome.
00:43:54.480 >> That is awesome.
00:43:55.680 >> Well, that was fun, Gabe. Thanks so
00:43:57.119 much.
00:43:57.520 >> Heck yes.
00:43:58.560 >> Gabe, where can people find a hat?
00:44:00.240 >> So, noboss.com. You can order your
00:44:02.640 licensed product or you can make a full
00:44:04.400 custom with your business logo just like
00:44:06.319 that.
00:44:07.280 >> All right.
00:44:07.680 >> Yay. Now I’m so cute. Thank you for
00:44:10.319 joining us on cross-examine with the
00:44:12.400 Gerbers. And don’t forget, we do own
00:44:14.000 Gerber Injury Law. So if you are
00:44:15.680 injured, reach out and we would love to
00:44:17.760 help you. Thank you. God bless. Bye-bye.